Walmart at Lindbergh? (Boston: fit in, 2013, renters)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

I had no idea that the entire future of a liveable Lindbergh hinged on a Walmart store.

Therein lies your problem.

Bear in mind (again) that the objections are not about Walmart -- it wouldn't matter who the tenant was. The issue is about whether you do good development in the city, or whether you are okay with 1970s style big boxes in a sea of surface parking.

If you do the latter, you'd certainly be setting the character for the rest of the area. It's hard to create a pedestrian feel if you're adjacent to a big box in the middle of whopping surface parking lot.

The city code says you can't develop this way in certain designated areas. Is there a reason that should be disregarded?

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

And junky Walmart happens to be the world's largest retailer.

Mathman, I know you love to play the contrarian so we won't discuss the obvious.

However, there's no reason this development should be tacky when it could just as easily be well done. (Not to mention it's required by law). That's true whether the tenant is Walmart or anybody else. Consider how Walmart is doing its new stores in DC and Athens. They have no problem putting the parking underneath elsewhere, so you have to scratch your head about why that wouldn't be done in Atlanta. Plenty of big box retailers do that in urban areas all over the US and around the world.

[cwkimbro]

Ok here is my arguments... I have two pictures to post.

One is a mapping of the Lindbergh area showing existing conditions + the Proposed Wal-Mart site and where the MARTA station is.

Note: This land site is in the very middle of the whole area both redeveloped and not redeveloped.

My problem is there is nothing to continue that pedestrian/Main st connection to other parts of the Lindbergh area if this Wal-Mart plan goes forward.




The second is my idea of a compromise.

It creates the Main st./pedestrian friendly streets, allows for mixed use retail/residential near the MARTA station, creates a Wal-Mart site w/parking deck on approximately the same amount of land as the Target right next door!

The friendly pedestrian area would walk right up to the Wal-Mart.... perfect urban big box access for area residents + those in cars.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Ok here is my arguments... I have two pictures to post.

One is a mapping of the Lindbergh area showing existing conditions + the Proposed Wal-Mart site and where the MARTA station is.

Note: This land site is in the very middle of the whole area both redeveloped and not redeveloped.

My problem is there is nothing to continue that pedestrian/Main st connection to other parts of the Lindbergh area if this Wal-Mart plan goes forward.


Attachment 98080

The second is my idea of a compromise.

It creates the Main st./pedestrian friendly streets, allows for mixed use retail/residential near the MARTA station, creates a Wal-Mart site w/parking deck on approximately the same amount of land as the Target right next door!

The friendly pedestrian area would walk right up to the Wal-Mart.... perfect urban big box access for area residents + those in cars.

Attachment 98081

The big-box land in your pictures were done wrong. The stores along Sidney Marcus was the right idea, but it failed when Target, Home Depot, and Best Buy were allowed to face a parking lot, instead of the street behind them. Also the Dump building should have been brought to the sidewalk. All parking needs to be behind a store or underground. I have no problem with WalMart, but if they want in at Lindbergh they will need to adhere to the zoning. This isn't some country-ass town where we need WalMart. NPU-B can be picky and make the developer adhere to the TOD zoning.
Your second picture is ideal. The main street idea at Lindbergh Center is a great idea and needs to be continued east of Piedmont. Any development that is built must have residential included in the upper stories. Maybe a limit of 5 stories in the area. The area where the Gold Room is needs to be an urban park with water retention ponds.

[Mishap]

Morosgo behind Target/Home Depot/Best Buy is a relative ghost town (one w/ lots of day laborers) when it comes to traffic. There's not a ton of connectivity between those two sides b/c it's like playing ******* crossing Piedmont w/ so many cars speeding onto Piedmont or turning w/o looking. I don't know if another development of any kind would help bind the two sides together as Piedmont is just massive there. As it is, I rarely see many office workers venture across Piedmont at lunch(heat's not helping too much) and there's not a ton of great options. It's mostly commuters heading to Marta while everyone else is in their car.

Razing the old apartments and bringing in more modern residential + commercial would definitely go a long way toward improving the area. Right now it's pretty much a freeway onramp for 400/85 which may be alleviated once they finish that interchange. Walmart definitely doesn't bring a lot but I'm still amazed how the seedy stuff between Lindbergh and Morningside persists despite ridiculous property values on either side of the freeway.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Ok here is my arguments... I have two pictures to post.

Good suggestions, CW. It's easy to do this project the right way, and in compliance with the city code's requirements for TOD. And there are many options. You don't outlaw cars, of course, but you simply don't make surface parking lots the domainant element of the plan. Big box stores are required by code to comply with the usual requirements for scale and fenestration (the same as anyone else), and to provide true streets and sidewalks instead of merely painting driveways on an asphalt lot.

There are many options for creating attractive parking decks as well. Put them underground (which would be perfect considering the steep grade on this site), build retail and/or residential above, face them with active uses, uses plants or other attractive screening, etc.

All of these things are urban planning 101. They don't require design geniuses or vast sums of money.

Obviously this site is in severe disrepair due to the partial demolition and construction of nearby areas. The apartments where the day laborers live and hang out have been allowed to languish because it was assumed that when the economy began to recover the site woudl be redeveloped.

One other factor that has to be dealt with is that the lots fronting Piedmont (Zesto's and a gas station, as I recall) are separately owned.

[cqholt]

Keep Zesto's, but offer them a good price to move into ground floor retail. Gas Stations are not good for TOD. They belong near the freeway ramps.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Keep Zesto's, but offer them a good price to move into ground floor retail. Gas Stations are not good for TOD. They belong near the freeway ramps.

Easier said than done, though. Both of them have been there for 60 years, knowing that the land would someday be extremely valuable. It's not likely the owners would be enticed to sell for anything less than a premium price.

[cqholt]

Easier said than done, though. Both of them have been there for 60 years, knowing that the land would someday be extremely valuable. It's not likely the owners would be enticed to sell for anything less than a premium price.

Make a deal on new ground floor retail at the corner or another prime spot. That building has to expensive to maintain, make a deal for new infrastructure in a new mixed-use development.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by Mishap

Morosgo behind Target/Home Depot/Best Buy is a relative ghost town (one w/ lots of day laborers) when it comes to traffic. There's not a ton of connectivity between those two sides b/c it's like playing ******* crossing Piedmont w/ so many cars speeding onto Piedmont or turning w/o looking. I don't know if another development of any kind would help bind the two sides together as Piedmont is just massive there.

Yea this hasn't been lost on me. The only advantage is if the street (or Wal-Mart parking lot entry) is located at Main st. It will become a likely place for a traffic light intersection with crosswalks, since the cross st is just a small 2-lane collector it will do a good job of stopping the traffic on Piedmont.

The other thing... it might need become more of a future idea. I think this would be a good, carefully designed point to make a pedestrian bridge or tunnel. with sloping access. Something similar to what is found in Chamblee https://maps.google.com/maps?q=atlan...gl=us&t=h&z=20

Tunnels often frighten people, because they create dark, confined spaces, but in this case I think it might work.