Atheists/Agnostics...does it scare you that.... (believe, reject, scientific)
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Lol I just realized the title of this thread probably makes you think at first glance its another condescending thread to atheists/agnostics by some religious person but I'm sure some of you have come to know me by now as being atheist by my regular posts:P
Anyhow I was wondering if it scared any of you on here that regularly read through the forums here specifically the religious ones on how fanatical some of the religious folk are on here? Maybe its relatively new to me because I never grew up with religion around me and my only exposure was to some other family members like going to a wedding in a Church or a communion but religion was never pushed on me.
There's quite a few religious posters on here who seem so blinded by their faith, its so easy to see why the Crusades happened, all the fighting in the current day Middle East, seeing how infamous religious fanatics like David Koresh and the Heavens gate group can occur.
I dunno...I'm just honestly freaked out a bit at times when I read some of these posts by religious people on here.
It does scare me a bit, but it doesn't surprise me. I grew up in a world where almost everyone I knew was a Christian fundamentalist and Bible literalist. My biggest challenge as an atheist is remembering that not every Christian is like that. These sort of Christians not only indoctrinated me as a child to think the way they do, the also indoctrinated me to believe that all Christians are, or should be, like that. And fortunately, that's not true either.
It does disappoint me when someone who seems that rather rare bird..a reasonable theist..finds a point in the discussion where they can't (not to say don't dare) take the points on board and just go into rejection mode. For the rest, Theist -think is something I was shocked at thirty (!) years ago but it doesn't surprise me now.
It is scarey when such people seem to be getting some clout. The term Loonies taking over the madhouse tends to spring to mind. The thing is they are perfectly well able to function normally. Someone who believes that Genesis is literally true or that Demons rub invisible shoulders with us on a daily basis are capable of operating a car and using a computer without doing themselves disabling damage.
But where the religion comes into it, something Happens. Everything is refracted through a glass, darkly, and nothing is as it is, but as a religion infected mind sees it. It scares me when someone whose opinions are treated with respect talks that sort of stuff.
I have been a member of this forum for over 3 years now and I am still shocked on a regular basis. As a European I think I always took it for granted that fundamentalists were in a minority , we are much more secular over here ( even countries like Italy or Ireland with Catholicism , most people nowadays only pay lip sync to the Church) and some of the posters and views have utterly changed my view of Americans and Christianity.
All fanaticism and fundamentalism is dangerous because it expels logic, reason and an appreciation of common sense and scientific open minded enquiry and the casualty IMO is our society.
I see people who embrace "facts" which are anything but with open arms because their faith and religious leaders dictates that anything else is a heresy. Posters who see fit to judge , and point the finger at others because they dissent or do not fit their narrow minded mould. Posters who are not only scientifically blind and deaf but also intolerant, bigoted and lack any form of empathy. People who can be downright cruel and do not even notice ( or care) because their deity condones and encourages violence if not of the body then of the mind which is as damaging and destructive in its own way.
The idea that any Westerner believes in creationism and refutes Evolution is beyond bizarre. Scary and ming boggling to begin with. It does not bode well for the future and I do often wonder whether if anything we are not simply going backwards rather than forward...
I do also find it amazing that some people can literally not accept that Atheism exist at all....That we Atheists all somehow have a hidden agenda and that we are somehow immoral or evil simply by our very existence. The idea in 2010 that Atheism is anything but a valid standpoint is utterly bewildering to me.
I remain bemused and quite frankly seeing some posts feel like taking to my heels...
But then again I also see members like MissBlue or Reverend and think that Religion is not all the refuge of archaic backwards bigots and it does warm the cockles of my heart ! I still don't understand religion and faith but some members somehow restore my faith in mankind by being what I would call moderate and loving.
I respect people's religions and faiths as long as it does not harm anyone else. We are all different and all view life in its myriad of shades and hues in a different way but I draw the line at those who seek to eradicate knowledge or logic and chose bogotry over kindness.
Most days it is normal. Sometimes someone surprises me.
A long time ago I was on another "forum" (before they were forums), and I jokingly set my location as "Dante's Kitchen". When someone asked me about I jokingly replied, "It's where I cook souls for dinner", or some other such nonsense.
The reaction shocked, even come from a fundamentalist background. I had equal numbers of people calling me a Satanist, and equal numbers asking me what ritual book I used. They thought I was serious. When I publicly pointed it that it was a joke, many of the wanna-be soul-eaters refused to believe me. I was hounded for several months to show them how to eat the souls of their enemies.
I wish I was joking about this, but it was truly shocking. Nothing has shocked me as much since then. It seems that many Americans are secretly far more superstitious than they let on publicly, if you can imagine.
Knowing that, I've always tried to discuss religion, because those superstitious types need to be prevented from gaining any kind of justification to do violence to non-believers (aka, LAW).
It is also a reason why I support personal defense as an individual right. Atheists, people of minority religions, and other political minorities need an avenue of defense in case the religious fanatics get a hold of the government. For the moment, it works in everyone's favor that those same extremists also cherish the right to be armed, because that means I can be an Armed Atheist, an irony I try to enjoy regularly.
But I see a culture war bubbling below the surface, and lately that surface film is growing very thin for many many reasons.
The vast majority of these people are all talk, so no, it doesn't really scare me so long as their fanaticism doesn't go beyond mere words. Believe whatever crazy idea you like. Just leave me alone about it, and keep your beliefs out of the schools and government.
I don't really care about words on the internet, and I can deal with Moderator cut: deleted in real life. If someone copped an attitude with me in the real world like a few believers do with atheist here at C-D, I'd make damn sure they'd never want to speak to me again after just one time.
Most days it is normal. Sometimes someone surprises me.
A long time ago I was on another "forum" (before they were forums), and I jokingly set my location as "Dante's Kitchen". When someone asked me about I jokingly replied, "It's where I cook souls for dinner", or some other such nonsense.
The reaction shocked, even come from a fundamentalist background. I had equal numbers of people calling me a Satanist, and equal numbers asking me what ritual book I used. They thought I was serious. When I publicly pointed it that it was a joke, many of the wanna-be soul-eaters refused to believe me. I was hounded for several months to show them how to eat the souls of their enemies.
I wish I was joking about this, but it was truly shocking. Nothing has shocked me as much since then. It seems that many Americans are secretly far more superstitious than they let on publicly, if you can imagine.
Knowing that, I've always tried to discuss religion, because those superstitious types need to be prevented from gaining any kind of justification to do violence to non-believers (aka, LAW).
It is also a reason why I support personal defense as an individual right. Atheists, people of minority religions, and other political minorities need an avenue of defense in case the religious fanatics get a hold of the government. For the moment, it works in everyone's favor that those same extremists also cherish the right to be armed, because that means I can be an Armed Atheist, an irony I try to enjoy regularly.
But I see a culture war bubbling below the surface, and lately that surface film is growing very thin for many many reasons.
Its a good point you make about the religious fanatics getting a hold of government. For example that an actual bill for a National Day of Prayer was attempted to be passed bewilders me. Although if it meant another day off for everyone at work I wouldn't care just for that fact I'd either go to work that day and work in peace or have a day off from work to do something fun while people are praying:P
Anyways it was good to hear peoples thoughts on this
We sound one bunch of terrified Doods. However, I must believe that, with the debate now so much out in the open, the arguments for and against can be given and I have to believe that, if some can give up religion because it does not stack up, they all can.
True, there is this leftover idea that, even if one doesn't believe, really, power is best left in the hands of the religious who can at least be expected to act decently whereas those atheists...why, Pol Pot was an atheist!!
That's why we are talking, here, on You-tube, in books, any way we can, to counter this......let's find a non -aggressive, politically correct and respectful term...
Slime
and NOT give the peddlers of extreme religion the opportunity to grab power and inflict Fundamentalism and creationism on our society, political, legal and educational system.
I don't doubt that most theists are reasonable. I may think their ideas are without any basis but Blind faith and I will demonstrate that if asked. That's ok. People can believe what they like. But where I think the danger is, is that the moderates can very often be led by the immoderate. The ranter and uncompromising bigot can look very impressive to the milder ones ("Well, he certainly has the courage of his convictions").
The danger is in the extremist tail wagging the reasonable dog. I wish the reasonable would see the danger for themselves, but the trouble is that, having swallowed some of the bunk, what's to stop them being fed the rest of it?
If we don't tell them, no - one will. And the choice seems uncompromisingly clear. One is either rational or not. If one is rational, one has to become at least Pantheist-deist/agnostic. If not, one is in the mindset where Bible - literalist Fundamentalism is going to look irrestible.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 05-20-2010 at 06:46 AM..
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However, I must believe that, with the debate now so much out in the open, the arguments for and against can be given and I have to believe that, if some can give up religion because it does not stack up, they all can. 