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OK one more time for the feeble minded. The State of Arizona decided that it needed to hire teachers who could teach in SPANISH, so that the children who did not speak English would not fall behind in their other subjects while learning english. So they went out and recruited Spanish speaking teachers for this special program. Now they will fire them for not speaking English well enough. It wasn't their job description.
So they will sue and they will win.
This wasn't my idea but you can't hire a mechanic and fire him because he can't cook.
You can so. Foreign language instruction was outlawed by the voters and kids are now required to get instruction in English. So the NEED for Spanish-speaking teachers has evaporated. When the market changes and an employer no longer NEEDS a particular skill, they can and always will let people who have that skill go. Are you arguing that they should be kept on the payroll even when their services are no longer required (or permitted) and their lack of English proficiency is hurting the students? That strikes me as ideology over logic. If they are not on contract and not needed they should be fired.
My earlier objections on this thread were based on a mistaken belief that the legislature had passed a law regarding this narrow aspect of teacher qualifications. I was wrong. This "ban" was put out by the state DOE and it is within their area of responsibility. While it might be preferable to leave such decisions to local boards and administrators, we all know that some districts in this state are dominated by open border people and ultra-liberals who could care less about the minority of US citizens in the desks of their schools. For that reason, action at the state level is sometimes necessary.
Because who decides? Accents are extremely subjective. One kid may have no problem understanding the teacher while another one isn't getting it at all. How do you determine if that teacher should stay or go? Is the teacher the problem? The student? The parents? I've stood there while someone had difficulty understanding someone I understood flawlessly. I've had people be unable to understand *me* and I (like so many) don't imagine I have much of an accent at all.
You honestly think it is that hard to determine? Give me a break dude, you know exactly what I'm talking about and that is when almost no one in the room can understand the person, we are not talking about one student or one person can't understand the person, we are talking a clear majority can't understand the person.
If you want to find out how someone decides, go to the news stations, specifically national ones and ask them how they are able to decide based upon accent and able to understand what they say who gets to go on the air. Let me tell ya the media has been doing this for over a century, this isn't new dude. If it was that hard the media like news stations would be having a really hard time.
this is pretty dumb - leave it up to the schools and their administration
it's better to have a teacher that can relate to ESL kids and their struggles with picking up the language than to nit pick over how clear and crisp they sound
my wife is from MN and is an excellent reading teacher - should she be disqualified because she normally doesn't say "bag" and other such words flawlessly?
it's fairly difficult finding competant people to work with these populations - if you have one you keep them
my wife is from MN and is an excellent reading teacher - should she be disqualified because she normally doesn't say "bag" and other such words flawlessly?
it's fairly difficult finding competant people to work with these populations - if you have one you keep them
They would not disqualify her for something like that if she was teaching in Arizona and you know it! My god you honestly think they would disqualify a teacher with this rule over something such as that? Give me a break dude, how is it not obvious to you people that this is really only about people who have such a thick accent that barely anyone can understand them. My god it isn't that hard to understand!
Give me a break dude, how is it not obvious to you people that this is really only about people who have such a thick accent that barely anyone can understand them. My god it isn't that hard to understand!
How many of those teachers do you think actually exist in the state?
Is this really a problem that needs to be legislated? Is this the best use of our taxerpayer time and money? Especially given the current national political climate it seems like there is very little potential reward to offset a ton of bad press and negativity.
Drawing attention over something as stupid and trivial as this doesn't make sense.
There are plenty of issues with education and there is a big vote on adding an additional tax that will be earmarked towards education.
Where are these teachers with accents that are so thick that barely anyone can understand them? Are there really enough of them in ESL classrooms that you need to legislate them out?
How about focusing on double digit unemployment, the lack of a diverse economy, the amazing # of homes that are over 100k upside down and the massive budget deficit instead of creating ghosts to hunt
Excuse me, sir .. could you say that one more time? ...
I had to change two classes in college because of teacher's accents.. I had a trig class where the teacher was hispanic and I simply couldn't understand half of what he was saying.. It wasn't completely unintelligible .. if I thought about it for a few seconds I could figure it out.. But during the lectures I didn't have that luxury.. Math is hard enough when you CAN understand the teacher.. Several of us transfered to a different section.. But the adminsitration didn't seem concerned at all about our situation .. or that of the others left in the class.. Some needed to take the class in that time slot and so were stuck.. And were probably unprepared for the next level course, if they moved on.. I also had a humanities teacher who's french accent was even worse than the math teacher's.. I was lucky I didn't really need that specific class.. I simply changed to a different elective.. If the teacher is talking one on one with you, or with someone from administration, they will pay more attention and speak differently.. But during lectures, they just let it rip.. And you have to understand to pass the course or .. god forbid .. LEARN.. You can only ask for the teacher to stop and go over it again SO many times.. Then you just give up.. And in college you may be one of the ones actually PAYING for your education.. So you get to pay for the privilege of wasting your time in the class..
And all it takes to weed them out is COMMON SENSE.. If a conversation with them is workable, but a strain.. then understanding them in lectures three times a week, where time is a factor and they think less about their enunciation, is going to be even harder.. If there is going to be an error made in resolving it .. the error must be made if favor or the student being able to learn.. Not on the side of the teacher being "offended" or hurt.. The whole purpose of the school is for the students to learn, not to give jobs to teachers..
You can find fault with anything, and some people always do.. However, as long as you use common sense, and your intention is to get the needed task accomplished, then it can be done.. Its when collateral agendas get involved, and actually take precedence over the main, or intended goal, that problems start.. Few solutions are perfect .. but if the goal makes sense, then you have to accept the flaws in the solution in order to get the job done..
But the problem always seems to end up being different goals.. If you can't agree on the goal .. or even admit that there's a problem .. then a workable, effective solution will be impossible.. And EVERYONE loses.. Unfortunately, many people actually PREFER that.. If you KNOW that common sense says that you're in the wrong .. then blocking the solution, even though it lets the problem continue, and grow, .. leaves you no worse off than before.. You STILL sort of win.. And for some people, that's ALL that REALLY matters.
I had to change two classes in college because of teacher's accents.. I had a trig class where the teacher was hispanic and I simply couldn't understand half of what he was saying.. It wasn't completely unintelligible .. if I thought about it for a few seconds I could figure it out.. But during the lectures I didn't have that luxury.. Math is hard enough when you CAN understand the teacher.. Several of us transfered to a different section.. But the adminsitration didn't seem concerned at all about our situation .. or that of the others left in the class.. Some needed to take the class in that time slot and so were stuck.. And were probably unprepared for the next level course, if they moved on.. I also had a humanities teacher who's french accent was even worse than the math teacher's.. I was lucky I didn't really need that specific class.. I simply changed to a different elective.. If the teacher is talking one on one with you, or with someone from administration, they will pay more attention and speak differently.. But during lectures, they just let it rip.. And you have to understand to pass the course or .. god forbid .. LEARN.. You can only ask for the teacher to stop and go over it again SO many times.. Then you just give up.. And in college you may be one of the ones actually PAYING for your education.. So you get to pay for the privilege of wasting your time in the class..
And all it takes to weed them out is COMMON SENSE.. If a conversation with them is workable, but a strain.. then understanding them in lectures three times a week, where time is a factor and they think less about their enunciation, is going to be even harder.. If there is going to be an error made in resolving it .. the error must be made if favor or the student being able to learn.. Not on the side of the teacher being "offended" or hurt.. The whole purpose of the school is for the students to learn, not to give jobs to teachers..
You can find fault with anything, and some people always do.. However, as long as you use common sense, and your intention is to get the needed task accomplished, then it can be done.. Its when collateral agendas get involved, and actually take precedence over the main, or intended goal, that problems start.. Few solutions are perfect .. but if the goal makes sense, then you have to accept the flaws in the solution in order to get the job done..
But the problem always seems to end up being different goals.. If you can't agree on the goal .. or even admit that there's a problem .. then a workable, effective solution will be impossible.. And EVERYONE loses.. Unfortunately, many people actually PREFER that.. If you KNOW that common sense says that you're in the wrong .. then blocking the solution, even though it lets the problem continue, and grow, .. leaves you no worse off than before.. You STILL sort of win.. And for some people, that's ALL that REALLY matters.
tiberius
I don't think this directive applies to university. Having a foreign teacher is part of the college experience and is good for you. It exposes you to the kind of people you might be working with in the future. How's your Mandarin?
Take a look at foreign ESL/EFL jobs. Almost every one will specify "native speaker from US, Canada, South Africa, UK, or Australia." That will be more important than an education degree. They will require a photo, too. If they want to save money, they will specify that a Filipino is OK, but the pay will be 2/3 LESS! The Koreans have been known to strand teachers at the airport because they were "too large."
from my school days. I hope I can do this right because it's really hard to write "accents".
Anyway, I was in 2nd grade in Tucson and my teacher was from Georgia. She had a Georgia accent for sure! Well, we always had oral spelling in that class and one day she asked me to spell "own"...which is what it sounded like to me! So, I, being very proud of my good spelling said, "Own. O-w-n. Own." OMG! She came down on me! Said I was being a smartaleck and said "No, no, like OWN (ON) the table!". Well...she made me stay after school as punishment and I wasn't even sure why, except she was mad. When I got home my dad asked me why I was late and I told him, word for word, what had happened. He nearly fell out on the floor laughing his butt off! Forever after, until he died, he would sometimes say "Carol, spell OWN" and go off into gales of laughter. He did go talk to my teacher and she did understand but still....
Because who decides? Accents are extremely subjective. One kid may have no problem understanding the teacher while another one isn't getting it at all. How do you determine if that teacher should stay or go? Is the teacher the problem? The student? The parents? I've stood there while someone had difficulty understanding someone I understood flawlessly. I've had people be unable to understand *me* and I (like so many) don't imagine I have much of an accent at all.
As for those who say, "if a teacher doesn't understand grammar then they shouldn't be allowed to teach it," uh...duh. There is no argument about that. I wouldn't want those with a poor grasp of history teaching my child history, or those who have no real understanding of science teaching chemistry or physics. The problem is determining who has too "heavy" and "accent" to be teaching. Frankly, I hate stupid laws that serve no purpose except to weed out people a certain other group of people doesn't like, just because they are different.
I think (correct me if Im wrong and I am sure someone will), but the law was for teachers who dont speak correct english and are teaching english right? so like they cant have heavy accents or broken english to teach english. if they cant say the word correctly they have no business trying to teach it. Just like the lady who posted about her getting in trouble for spelling own instead of on, well it wasnt her fault the teacher couldnt say it right,there are many many people out of work who are qualified to take their place.
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Excuse me, sir .. could you say that one more time? ...
