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Old 07-14-2009, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937

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The restrictions in the bill signed Monday include a mandatory 24-hour waiting period before getting an abortion after a visit to the abortion provider. That visit would have to include state-scripted disclosures by doctors about risks and alternatives.

Also, an existing law on parental approval for minors seeking to end pregnancies would be toughened. In addition, pharmacists and other health care providers will be able to refuse to hand out emergency contraception on moral or religious grounds.

Arizona governor approves abortion constraints
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:27 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,897 posts, read 10,417,986 times
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You would think that if a woman wanted an abortion, they would have already thought it out well before going to the clinic. I understand the need for a waiting period to make sure it's what the woman really want's to do, just like waiting to buy a gun...sort of.

I do not think it should be up to the pharmacists to refuse to hand out emergency contraception, what if you're raped, or your condom breaks?

Abortion is the best option for young couples who aren't ready to have kids. You can take all the necessary precautions to avoid getting pregnant, but there is always the chance. If a young woman around 17 got pregnant, in most cases she does not have the financial capability to raise a child, and the environment it would be brought up in would most likely not be as good as someone who is 25, has a stable job, owns a house, etc.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:30 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
You would think that if a woman wanted an abortion, they would have already thought it out well before going to the clinic. I understand the need for a waiting period to make sure it's what the woman really want's to do, just like waiting to buy a gun...sort of.

I do not think it should be up to the pharmacists to refuse to hand out emergency contraception, what if you're raped, or your condom breaks?
Some pharmacists have moral objections to the type of contraception described by the legislation

And no - a lot of woman / girls do not stop and think before getting an abortion.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:31 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
Abortion is the best option for young couples who aren't ready to have kids.
One option you did not mention is adoption.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:32 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
2,897 posts, read 10,417,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
One option you did not mention is adoption.
That still requires the woman to get pregnant, have you seen what a pregnancy can do to a woman? If you're 18 would you really want to do that to your body?

Adoption is a great option, but a tricky one.
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Old 07-14-2009, 02:37 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaPhx View Post
That still requires the woman to get pregnant, have you seen what a pregnancy can do to a woman? If you're 18 would you really want to do that to your body?

Adoption is a great option, but a tricky one.
Yes, I have seen what a Pregnancy "can do" to a woman BUT, if the woman is ALREADY pregnant .....

And contrary to your statement above - Adoption is a viable option and is not "tricky" as you suggest.

There are many fine perspective adoptive parents waiting for a child today. They are waiting to provide loving homes.
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Old 07-14-2009, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Tucson
42,831 posts, read 88,170,643 times
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Deeper and deeper back to the Dark Ages... Only in America - "the land of the free"!
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Old 07-14-2009, 04:09 PM
 
9,091 posts, read 19,226,281 times
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so ridiculous

all pharmacists should be required to have someone on staff available to fill all legally available prescriptions ..... if you do not want to fill a prescription work for a pharmacist that does not carry that particular script or find a new profession

other than that, show up and do your job

as for the waiting period, it does nothing but provide more mental anguish to people going through a tough process ..... the disclaimers that are already there are a joke

state scripted is also kind of scary as well

this will do nothing to curb abortion and only provide further anguish ...... i know it isn't most cases, but there are abortions for those who have a pregnancy that isn't viable

so now those people, who want nothing more to have a healthy child get to go through this process ........ get rocked by the news that the baby you were so excited about has no chance at life, go to an abortion clinic and deal with the fun of that experience (pay full cost upfront and hope your ins. co. will reimburse something, deal with the existing forms & paperwork, talk to one of their counselors, complete the existing forms that state that you are there willfully, etc)

and now go through more where they break down the exact procedures, describe the characteristics of how the baby looks at that stage in development, pretty much make you feel even worse and then send you on your way so you can spend another day in limbo and anguish before making the trek back to do what you have to do

sickening if you ask me

i'm not an abortion as birth control proponent by any means, but the medical procedure does have a time and place
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Old 07-14-2009, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
as for the waiting period, it does nothing but provide more mental anguish to people going through a tough process ..... the disclaimers that are already there are a joke
There is another part of this law you missed - the requirement for parental notification - not approval - NOTIFICATION.

IMHO, if I, as a parent, are responsible for my child, I should, at the very least, be notified when MY CHILD is going through ANY medical procedure - don't you agree?

I mean, my child cannot take an aspirin without my knowledge and consent.

Yet, and up to now, my child could have an abortion without me even knowing about it

This law corrects that major deficiency.
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Old 07-14-2009, 05:04 PM
 
9,091 posts, read 19,226,281 times
Reputation: 6967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
I mean, my child cannot take an aspirin without my knowledge and consent.
they can't? - i honestly don't know as I didn't live out here as a minor and never tried to buy it back home that I can recall ..... i don't think there are restrictions about selling OTC drugs to minors as it pertains to asprin - i know there are a variety of restrictions on drugs containing ephedrine or psuedoephedrine

also, it isn't notification, it is approval - in fact approval is already on the books in the form of A.R.S. § 36-2152

Format Document

Quote:
. A person shall not knowingly perform an abortion on a pregnant unemancipated minor unless the attending physician has secured the written consent from one of the minor's parents or the minor's guardian or conservator or unless a judge of the superior court authorizes the physician to perform the abortion pursuant to subsection B.
B. A judge of the superior court shall, on petition or motion, and after an appropriate hearing, authorize a physician to perform the abortion if the judge determines that the pregnant minor is mature and capable of giving informed consent to the proposed abortion. If the judge determines that the pregnant minor is not mature or if the pregnant minor does not claim to be mature, the judge shall determine whether the performance of an abortion on her without the consent from one of her parents or her guardian or conservator would be in her best interests and shall authorize a physician to perform the abortion without consent if the judge concludes that the pregnant minor's best interests would be served.
C. The pregnant minor may participate in the court proceedings on her own behalf. The court may appoint a guardian ad litem for her. The court shall advise her that she has the right to court appointed counsel and shall, on her request, provide her with counsel unless she appears through private counsel or she knowingly and intelligently waives her right to counsel.
D. Proceedings in the court under this section are confidential and have precedence over other pending matters. Members of the public shall not inspect, obtain copies of or otherwise have access to records of court proceedings under this section unless authorized by law. A judge who conducts proceedings under this section shall make in writing specific factual findings and legal conclusions supporting the decision and shall order a confidential record of the evidence to be maintained including the judge's own findings and conclusions. The minor may file the petition using a fictitious name. For purposes of this subsection, public does not include judges, clerks, administrators, professionals or other persons employed by or working under the supervision of the court or employees of other public agencies who are authorized by state or federal rule or law to inspect and copy closed court records.
E. The court shall hold the hearing and shall issue a ruling within forty-eight hours, excluding weekends and holidays, after the petition is filed. If the court fails to issue a ruling within this time period the petition is deemed to have been granted and the consent requirement is waived.
F. An expedited confidential appeal is available to a pregnant minor for whom the court denies an order authorizing an abortion without parental consent. The appellate court shall hold the hearing and issue a ruling within forty-eight hours, excluding weekends and holidays, after the petition for appellate review is filed. Filing fees are not required of the pregnant minor at either the trial or the appellate level.
G. Parental consent or judicial authorization is not required under this section if either:
1. The pregnant minor certifies to the attending physician that the pregnancy resulted from sexual conduct with a minor by the minor's parent, stepparent, uncle, grandparent, sibling, adoptive parent, legal guardian or foster parent or by a person who lives in the same household with the minor and the minor's mother. The physician performing the abortion shall report the sexual conduct with a minor to the proper law enforcement officials pursuant to section 13-3620 and shall preserve and forward a sample of the fetal tissue to these officials for use in a criminal investigation.
2. The attending physician certifies in the pregnant minor's medical record that, on the basis of the physician's good faith clinical judgment, the pregnant minor has a condition that so complicates her medical condition as to necessitate the immediate abortion of her pregnancy to avert her death or for which a delay will create serious risk of substantial and irreversible impairment of major bodily function.
H. A person who performs an abortion in violation of this section is guilty of a class 1 misdemeanor. A person is not subject to any liability under this section if the person establishes by written evidence that the person relied on evidence sufficient to convince a careful and prudent person that the representations of the pregnant minor regarding information necessary to comply with this section are true.
I. For purposes of this section:
1. "Abortion" means the use of an instrument, medicine or drug or other substance or device with the intent to terminate a pregnancy for reasons other than to increase the probability of a live birth, to preserve the life or health of the child after a live birth, to terminate an ectopic pregnancy or to remove a dead fetus. Abortion does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives that inhibit or prevent ovulation, fertilization or the implantation of a fertilized ovum within the uterus.
2. "Fetus" means any individual human organism from fertilization until birth.
this new bill just adds onto that aspect - making the signature be notarized, adds further roles to superior court judges, provides means for civil actions by the parent/guardian if consent was violated

honestly, none of that bothers me ...... the laws were on the books and they just clarified it a bit - i don't like how they made it seem like they were doing some great thing by informing parents ...... that's already there

my issues come in this part - i'll bold the parts in particular

Quote:
[CENTER][CENTER]Informed Consent Requirements[/CENTER][/CENTER]
· Prohibits an abortion from being performed or induced without the voluntary and informed consent of the woman on whom the abortion is to be performed or induced.
· Stipulates that, except in the case of a medical emergency, voluntary and informed consent has only been obtained if all of the following conditions are met:
· At least twenty-four hours before the abortion, the physician performing the abortion or the referring physician, has informed the woman, orally and in person of the following:
§ The name of the physician who will perform the abortion.
§ The nature of the proposed procedure or treatment.
§ The immediate and long-term medical risks associated with the procedure, and alternatives to the procedure that a reasonable patient would consider material to the decision of whether or not to undergo the abortion.
§ The probably gestational age and anatomical and physiological characteristics of the unborn child at the time the abortion is to be performed.
§ The medical risks associated with carrying the child to term.
· At least twenty-four hours before the abortion, the physician performing the abortion, the referring physician, or another qualified physician, physician assistant, nurse, psychologist, or licensed behavioral health professional to whom the responsibility has been delegated, has informed the woman, orally and in person of the following:
§ Medical assistance benefits may be available for prenatal care, childbirth, and neonatal care.
§ The father of the child is liable to assist in the support of the child, even if he has offered to pay for the abortion (except in cases of rape or incest, in which case this information may be omitted).
§ Public and private services are available to assist the woman during and after her pregnancy, whether she chooses to keep the child or place the child for adoption.
§ It is unlawful for any person to coerce a woman to undergo an abortion.
§ The woman is free to withhold or withdraw her consent to the abortion at any time without affecting her right to future care or benefits to which she might otherwise be entitled.
· The information is provided to the woman individually in a private room, and the woman has certified in writing that before the abortion all the information was provided.
· Requires, if a medical emergency compels the performance of an abortion, that the physician inform the woman, before the abortion if possible, of the medical indications supporting the physician’s judgment that an abortion is necessary to avert the woman’s death or substantial impairment of major bodily function.
· States that a physician who knowingly violates informed consent requirements has committed an act of unprofessional conduct and is subject to license suspension or revocation.
· Allows the following persons to file a civil action for relief related to violations of informed consent requirements:
· A woman on whom an abortion has been performed without her informed consent.
· A father of an unborn child if married to the mother at the time she received the abortion, unless the pregnancy resulted from the plaintiff’s criminal conduct.
· The maternal grandparents of an unborn child if the mother was a minor at the time of the abortion, unless the pregnancy resulted from the plaintiff’s criminal conduct.
· Specifies a civil action related to an alleged violation of informed consent laws may be based on a claim that failure to obtain informed consent was the result of simple negligence, gross negligence, wantonness, willfulness, intention, or any other legal standard of care.
· Stipulates that relief resulting from such civil actions includes the following:
· Money damages for all psychological, emotional, and physical injuries related to the violation.
· Statutory damages in an amount equal to $5,000 or three times the cost of the abortion, whichever is greater.
· Reasonable attorney fees and costs.
· Requires that civil actions of the type described above be initiated within six years of the violation.
HB2564 - 491R - House Bill Summary


I don't like setting up an arbitrary waiting period

i don't like the lack of profession discretion provided to medical providers on medical decisions

i don't like how beaurocrats in the state are going to develop medical literature that must be reviewed

i don't like how informed consent involves the women, to the point where they have to be in a room alone to go through all of this (if it was a case of an unviable pregnancy, once again the male can be there for support, but is locked out) - to take it further, I don't like how the husband can sue a provider for an action that the wife legally undertook when there is no obligation to inform the husband of the wifes medical condition due to a breach of informed consent when the same legislation bars them from part of the process

This is legislation that really doesn't do anything, opens up even more lawsuits and litigation and distracts from the real issues of the state ..... like the budget and all it's fallout

instead of wasting time on legislation like this I would be happier if they actually worked on something that has an impact to our lives, instead of putting off the important stuff until the 11th hour
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