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If UW can elevate OC Ryan Grubb it'll go a lot easier. Maybe even get some transfers to stick. The passing game wouldn't have as much star power but the team could still be really good.
Otherwise, hopefully the new guy can bring his own transfers.
Jedd Fisch has been hired at Washington. I guess Arizona is going to lose players to the portal.
Jedd Fisch is heading north from Arizona to Washington. Washington announced Sunday evening that it had hired Fisch, 47, as its next head coach to replace new Alabama coach Kalen DeBoer. Fisch rebuilt the Arizona football program over his three seasons as head coach; the Wildcats went 10-3 in 2023 and ended the season on a seven-game winning streak that was capped by a win over Oklahoma in the Alamo Bowl. One of Arizona’s three losses during the season came at home to Washington on Sept. 30. The Huskies won that game 31-24 — one of their 10 straight wins by 10 points or fewer as they advanced to the national title game. Arizona held Heisman runner-up Michael Penix Jr. without a TD pass, though Penix was 30-of-40 passing for 363 yards. Arizona emerged in 2023 as Noah Fifita established himself as one of the better quarterbacks in the Pac-12. Fifita was 241-of-333 passing for 2,869 yards and 25 TDs with just six interceptions in 12 games. Fisch took over for Kevin Sumlin following an 0-5 season in 2020. Arizona went 1-11 in 2021 and was one of the worst teams in college football. But the Wildcats took a big step forward in 2022 and went 5-7, with wins over then-No. 9 UCLA and Arizona State in the final three weeks of the season. Before he was hired at Arizona, Fisch was a longtime assistant in both college football and the NFL, and he spent two games as UCLA’s interim coach in 2017. Fisch was the quarterbacks coach for the New England Patriots in 2020 and worked two seasons with the Rams as an offensive assistant before that. Fisch also has experience in the Big Ten as Washington makes the move from the Pac-12. He served as Michigan’s passing game coordinator in 2015 and 2016 before he joined UCLA’s coaching staff. Prior to working at Michigan, one of Fisch's coaching stops included serving as the QB coach for the Seattle Seahawks under Pete Carroll in Carroll's first season with the team in 2010. Carroll's son Brennan has been Fisch's offensive coordinator at Arizona. Fisch's first roster task at Washington will be to figure out the quarterback position. The Huskies had former Mississippi State QB Will Rogers lined up to replace Penix in 2024, but Rogers put his name in the transfer portal after DeBoer’s departure.
No, I'm disputing your statement that both Deion and Dabo are not Xs and Os guys and would not make good coordinators. Dabo, by your own admission, is not. You're trying to put Deion into the same category, which is ridiculous considering he's one of the best to ever do it. He actually knows a lot about the technical aspects of the game. The comparison to McVay is a complete red herring as no one has ever questioned his high football acumen.
You are improperly interpreting the statement.
What I said is would you hire either Dabo or Prime as a coordinator? Dabo I'm not sure has the ability to do it.. Prime I don't think has the personality to do it. Additionally.. I think Prime would be bad at it simply because he WAS such an exceptional player.. He's going to plan things as if HE was the one in there making the plays. Not only could he do things that no one else really could (Though, I will hedge a bit here by saying that players today would match up better with him during his prime).. I think in his mind, he could do even MORE than he actually could. Which.. Makes for a bad coordinator in my eyes.
But.. They both make pretty good HCs. SO LONG AS.. they have good coordinators under them.
The management overall.. They seem to be good at. Teaching, in the case of Prime.. Or Drawing up the plays in the case of Dabo.. Not so much. Which.. Are two things coordinators need to be excellent at.
Now.. The question remains as to whether Prime has the personality to be a LONG TERM successful HC. Because.. We've covered the problems that I have with his methodology. So far as a recruiter.. You know.. Here at the start, and I think we saw the example this year.. He was able to sell the proverbial ketchup popsicle to the woman in white gloves.
But.. His 4-8 season.. In addition to some of his statements tossing the team under the bus. Cracked, at the very least, that picture. And, as someone mentioned, he even said that it was going to be harder for him to recruit now. Probably because the image has.. If not been shattered.. It's been dusted up.
I'll mention.. Your best and smartest coordinators.. Seem to wind up being the players who.. Were average at best. There's a long, long list of players who were exceptional who became coaches that.. Did poorly.. Most recently, i'd say Mike Singletary. Ron Rivera.. Whose second coaching stint didn't go great, but his first at Carolina was decent.. Was.. Average to slightly above as a player? Certainly not on the level of Singletary. Bart Starr who was one of the great QBs of his time.. Horrible HC.
The better the player.. The worse they do as a coach.. At least.. Of the people i can think of.. That seems to be the case. Ditka was a pretty exceptional player.. Honestly.. I'd say not a great coach. Yes, the 85 season.. But.. How much credit goes to Buddy Ryan there? Because when they broke up.. Ditka's teams weren't good. Landry and Shula.. Great coaches. Shula was a good player.. Better than Landry, I'd say.
But.. Are there any HoF players who were great coaches? I'm drawing a blank.. Which probably means someone will throw out a totally obvious name that I should be thinking of..
But.. They both make pretty good HCs. SO LONG AS.. they have good coordinators under them.
Who in your opinion would make a pretty good HC without good coordinators under them? That's basically impossible since one man cannot manage and implement plans for special teams, linebackers, safeties, defensive backs, tight ends, offensive line, defensive line, QBs, running backs, etc. Every coach is at the mercy of their coordinators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18
I'll mention.. Your best and smartest coordinators.. Seem to wind up being the players who.. Were average at best. There's a long, long list of players who were exceptional who became coaches that.. Did poorly.. Most recently, i'd say Mike Singletary. Ron Rivera.. Whose second coaching stint didn't go great, but his first at Carolina was decent.. Was.. Average to slightly above as a player? Certainly not on the level of Singletary. Bart Starr who was one of the great QBs of his time.. Horrible HC.
And there's an even longer list of mediocre players or non-players who did poorly. The ratio of HOF-caliber players to "ordinary" players/non-players who have gone on to become coaches has got be something like 500:1.
It's also difficult to compare the NFL to college. Nick Saban and many other successful college coaches never had success in the NFL. There's much more parity among teams in the NFL and the difference between a great coach and a mediocre to bad one often comes down to luck (i.e., landing a generational QB like TB12), organizational management, etc.
No, a relatively small percentage of coaches were really standout players. Using NFL coaches as a proxy for overall success:
DeMeco Ryans was a star.
Jim Harbaugh, Dan Campbell, and Todd Bowles were solid but non-starring contributors.
Doug Pederson was a good backup. Kevin O'Connell was at the end of the bench.
Pete Carroll, John Harbaugh, Mike MacDonald, Bill Belichick, Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Sean McDermott, Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Jonathan Gannon, Matt Eberfuls, Zac Taylor, Kevin Stefanski, Shane Steichen, Matt LaFleur, Dennis Allen, Brian Daboll, Nick Sirianni, and Robert Saleh topped out in college at best.
It's a similar story with college coaches. Nick Saban, Dabo Swinney, and Kalen DeBoer are examples who didn't play big-time football.
This is entirely predictable and obvious. Every nationally-known football star player on earth would fit in a high school gym, a tiny potential coaching pool. Actual coaches come from the a pool of millions of people interested in the sport, most of whom played but never in the big time.
Who in your opinion would make a pretty good HC without good coordinators under them? That's basically impossible since one man cannot manage and implement plans for special teams, linebackers, safeties, defensive backs, tight ends, offensive line, defensive line, QBs, running backs, etc. Every coach is at the mercy of their coordinators.
And there's an even longer list of mediocre players or non-players who did poorly. The ratio of HOF-caliber players to "ordinary" players/non-players who have gone on to become coaches has got be something like 500:1.
It's also difficult to compare the NFL to college. Nick Saban and many other successful college coaches never had success in the NFL. There's much more parity among teams in the NFL and the difference between a great coach and a mediocre to bad one often comes down to luck (i.e., landing a generational QB like TB12), organizational management, etc.
Many view Belichik as this "wizard" but he has a losing record without Tom Brady.
George Seifert has a losing record without Joe Montana/Steve Young as his QB.
Some coaches.. Like Saban.. Does it really matter who his coordinators are? I mean, go through the long, long list of them. You're saying all of them were great?
Seems anyone can be put in those positions and they're still going to be perfectly fine.
George Seifert has a losing record without Joe Montana/Steve Young as his QB.
Some coaches.. Like Saban.. Does it really matter who his coordinators are? I mean, go through the long, long list of them. You're saying all of them were great?
Seems anyone can be put in those positions and they're still going to be perfectly fine.
Saban has had a lot of "great" coordinators.
Kirby Smart
Brian Daboll
Jimbo Fisher
Mike Locksley
Steve Sarkisian
Lane Kiffin
Bill O'Brien
Jim McElwain
He's not getting scrubs. Even if he never won a championship, Bill O'Brien was a NFL head coach, so he's hardly "anyone."
A head coach for a major national program is akin to a CEO of a large company. There are separate meetings and drills for each offensive and defensive unit. Saban does not have time to attend all these meetings and drill into all the details the same way the CEO of a company doesn't have time to meet with every single manager or read every single memo. So he has to delegate a lot of the heavy lifting to coordinators and then they delegate a lot of their responsibility to unit coaches.
It's kinda obvious you've never played football in any organized way.
Sadly, Bear Bryant died a month after he retired from coaching at Alabama.
I know. Guess I should have said hes enjoying fried onions in heaven. A remark he made after a game, to the proverbial "what now coach?" Gonna go fry onion of course
Saying that you can put anyone into a coordinator position and the team will be "perfectly fine" displays a general ignorance about the way a football team operates. Sorry.
There is simply too much film to be broken down and too many adjustments to be made by unit to not have quality coordinators. A head coach will determine the philosophy of the team--will we be a passing offense or a running offense, will we be an aggressive defense that creates "havoc" or a more conservative defense that doesn't give up big plays, will we search for explosive plays on offense or take a more incremental approach? Based on his philosophy, the HC will hire coordinators to help execute his vision. Those coordinators will create plays/schemes sometimes with the input of the HC. You have some HCs who might micromanage aspects of the game plan and others who take a more hands off approach. But no matter the approach, it is literally impossible to manage every single part of the game because there simply aren't enough hours in a day.
HCs are responsible for the overall supervision of the team. He'll be out there supervising practices, reviewing game plans and some film with coordinators. A HC might say "Hey, these nickel fire blitzes have been killing us, do something about it." And the offensive coordinator comes up with some plays and presents them to the HC. The HC is the final authority on whether the play goes into the playbook. But he's not necessarily coming up with the plays himself. And if he is, then that's less time spent supervising others things like defense, and of course he'll need a competent coordinator to take care of that if he's going to spend hours in the nitty gritty details of play design.
No, a relatively small percentage of coaches were really standout players. Using NFL coaches as a proxy for overall success:
DeMeco Ryans was a star.
Jim Harbaugh, Dan Campbell, and Todd Bowles were solid but non-starring contributors.
Doug Pederson was a good backup. Kevin O'Connell was at the end of the bench.
Pete Carroll, John Harbaugh, Mike MacDonald, Bill Belichick, Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Sean McDermott, Andy Reid, Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, Jonathan Gannon, Matt Eberfuls, Zac Taylor, Kevin Stefanski, Shane Steichen, Matt LaFleur, Dennis Allen, Brian Daboll, Nick Sirianni, and Robert Saleh topped out in college at best.
It's a similar story with college coaches. Nick Saban, Dabo Swinney, and Kalen DeBoer are examples who didn't play big-time football.
This is entirely predictable and obvious. Every nationally-known football star player on earth would fit in a high school gym, a tiny potential coaching pool. Actual coaches come from the a pool of millions of people interested in the sport, most of whom played but never in the big time.
Mike Leach (RIP) never played college football due to an injury.
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