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6. Why is the Cleveland Clinic so big. Too big. Seems like they have a monopoly on health care here.
Regional health care systems are the future. Corporate hospitals in the South and North are buying up all the small independent hospitals to enlarge their networks. Hurts the little guy but brings in more money for the board members.
Wondering what precisely you didn't like about it. I lived there for about 6 months earlier this year...I would say the people are great and if I had stayed longer, I probably would have enjoyed more about the city. As it was, we arrived in the winter months and I was hesitant about driving in a strange city in the middle of winter. I did get to and enjoyed the Rock Hall of Fame, the Natural History Museum and the Botanic Gardens. I know what I didn't like was apartment living and lack of parking, but those may not have anything to do with your issues! Crime issues were a bit of a concern, although I didn't venture far at night. The roads were horrendous, parts of the city were like driving through a third world country, and it seemed like it was a far drive to a decent grocery store. Now that I've moved further out of the city, I guess I just feel better in a more suburban setting, where the amenities are just a few blocks away, the country is a short drive away, etc....but again, none of these might be the same issues you are experiencing.....
First and second ring 'Burb living is experiencing a renaissance with 30+ something residents disillusioned with walkable urban centers. We see this growth in our city and others we visit. People want parking, easy commutes, the best schools, quiet, space, and safety. The aging Hipsters have kids.
Regional health care systems are the future. Corporate hospitals in the South and North are buying up all the small independent hospitals to enlarge their networks. Hurts the little guy but brings in more money for the board members.
One great benefit of the Cleveland Clinic is that it's non-profit and its medical staff are salaried; for viewers of "The Resident," CC surgeons aren't incentivized to deliver more procedures.
Good to see some replies before I get into reasons I got issues:
1. Wife does not like it. She finds it depressing for her own reasons. Some overlap with mine.
2. Seeing some of the run down areas such as East side is quite sad to see.
3. Things are more spread out and drive times are further than expected
4. Local grocery stores like Marcs, Heiman's, and Giant Eagle are a let down compared to what I got in the past with places like Food Lion and Kroger in other states (found the latter much better)
5. Good museums and attractions, but which ones do you pay a season pass for if you can't afford more than 1 at a time. What about parking too such as the Rock Hall? First world problem there admittedly. Got Zoo pass right now. Pretty cool place.
6. Why is the Cleveland Clinic so big. Too big. Seems like they have a monopoly on health care here.
7. Sports tickets too expensive. Especially Cleveland Monsters. Was looking forward to see some good pro hockey for which the AHL is. But they charge NHL level prices. The Cleveland Cavs/Monsters arena even though its newer than the Washington DC Capitals arena feels more cramped and older.
8. Knew fall and winter was cold. That does not trouble me unless the wind picks up, but I am surprised at how many cloudy and overcast days there are.
9. Lack of new infrastructure (except for Clev clinic). I think a new Aldi opened up where I am in Mayfield, but that's about it. I read about what happened at Valley View with the new shopping center going empty within a year. What a joke. Only in Cleveland metro area.
OP, looks like some, at least, of your issues are similar to mine and what another poster mentioned....coming from Seattle, I admit, I was totally unprepared for the blight and level of poverty in some areas. It can definitely be a shock. I also was looking desperately for something like a Fred Meyer....never found it and also found simple things like driving to the grocery stores that were available meant a longer drive than I wanted over pothole filled roads. I think, depending on where you came from, all of this can be a culture shock. I found the East/West divide to be just weird, as well. In Seattle, all kinds/colors of people lived mixed together.....as another poster mentioned, I found it odd to look around and be the only white person in the grocery store! On the West side, maybe Black people look around and feel the same way about all the white people! I never had any issues and everyone was nice, but it still was a strange feeling. As for sports tickets, or the Cleveland Clinic......never really thought about those things. And coming from Seattle, gray and dreary was not news to me! I think you got some good advice on maybe trying another neighborhood. I really think Cleveland has a lot to offer, and has plenty of room for improvement as well.....but it may take some getting used to in the short term.
One great benefit of the Cleveland Clinic is that it's non-profit and its medical staff are salaried; for viewers of "The Resident," CC surgeons aren't incentivized to deliver more procedures.
UPMC is non-profit with 87,000 employees and 40 hospitals. From Wikipedia - The Cleveland Clinic is an American academic medical center based in Cleveland, Ohio. Owned and operated by the Cleveland Clinic Foundation, an Ohio nonprofit corporation established in 1921, it runs a 170 acre campus in Cleveland, as well as 11 regional hospitals and 19 family health centers in northeast Ohio, and hospitals in Florida and Nevada.
Outside the United States, Cleveland Clinic also operates the Cleveland Clinic Abu Dhabi hospital and a sports medicine clinic in Toronto. A Cleveland Clinic hospital campus in London is scheduled to open in 2021.
Only the government can stop these monopolies and they won't. The large corporate-like hospital systems are the way of the future.
I paid 90 for upper deck seats for meaningless bruins games in November. Similar prices throughout most of the NHL, with some exceptions. But monsters games are very comparable to the providence bruins. Probably better promotional deals though. I guess the prices are actually kind of comparable to blue jackets games though, for cheap seats at least (not at all for premium seating). But I mean, we are talking about 5-10 dollar differences and the monsters dont involve a 2 hour+ drive.
I'm not sure its legit to complain about living in a 2nd ring post war suburb in regards to living "in Cleveland" especially re: things are spread out. I feel like one accepts this by virtue of choosing to live in a 2nd ring suburb.
There are large swaths of the east side that do indeed have nothing going for them. It is unfortunate. Hopefully this won't be the case forever. But I'm not sure you actually have spent much time there either? Little Italy, larchmere, university circle, cedar fairmount, Coventry, cedar lee are all definitely not depressing. You'll find some good stuff even in some otherwise bad areas (league park in Hough, or the agora and gallucis in midtown, cultural gardens in glenville and the lakefront preserve just north of there, some good restaurants in slavic village, etc etc). Though some areas I have nothing good to say about (woodland hills, kinsman, mt pleasant, union miles park, central).
I moved to the Cleveland metro area earlier this year. Did it by choice since I had remote work. Attracted to it by affordable housing and lots of potential for activates and weekend trips. Also no tax on food. I do regret it though, for various reasons. Just wondering how any other transplants felt about living in the Cleveland metro area after being here after 6-8 months. And how come?
I never post my personal perspective on this forum, but as a transplant I can share my experience. I am a native Metro Detroit resident who relocated to Ann Arbor, Tallahassee and Chapel Hill for education. My first career position was in Cleveland (2004-2006). It was a two-year grant-funded role in Ohio City so I rented an apartment at the Fries & Schuele Building when West 25th Street had begun to experience more significant gentrification. I accepted another position in Washington, DC, and relocated just before the Great Recession. I moved to Akron in 2011 for a different job and bought my Shaker Heights house in early 2014 when I assumed my current title in downtown Cleveland.
Honestly, I am happy to be here. I'm used to Rust Belt struggles (the disinvestment and blight of Detroit neighborhoods is an order of magnitude worse than Cleveland neighborhoods). I greatly appreciate public transit, especially rail; many cities of comparable size or larger have none (e.g. Columbus, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Detroit, Milwaukee, Kansas City). The weather here is similar to Detroit so the darker, cloudier winters do not phase me at all; I enjoy the seasons. After the stratospheric housing prices of DC, I am grateful for the lifestyle I can afford here. I know that I could never attain a comparable residence and neighborhood in a booming coastal city or inland "hot spot." I still can't believe what my friends in other communities pay for what they call home.
Final note: I came out in Cleveland right after I moved here in 2004 and the community was extremely friendly and welcoming; best decision I ever made. After having lived more than five years in DC, I am equally grateful that I did not come out there. Despite DC's reputation for its large and lively gay community (which it has), I would not have received the genuine love and support I needed. Cleveland gave me that and still does. Ours is a warmer and more forgiving town than some other places.
I never post my personal perspective on this forum, but as a transplant I can share my experience. I am a native Metro Detroit resident who relocated to Ann Arbor, Tallahassee and Chapel Hill for education. My first career position was in Cleveland (2004-2006). It was a two-year grant-funded role in Ohio City so I rented an apartment at the Fries & Schuele Building when West 25th Street had begun to experience more significant gentrification. I accepted another position in Washington, DC, and relocated just before the Great Recession. I moved to Akron in 2011 for a different job and bought my Shaker Heights house in early 2014 when I assumed my current title in downtown Cleveland.
Honestly, I am happy to be here. I'm used to Rust Belt struggles (the disinvestment and blight of Detroit neighborhoods is an order of magnitude worse than Cleveland neighborhoods). I greatly appreciate public transit, especially rail; many cities of comparable size or larger have none (e.g. Columbus, Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Detroit, Milwaukee, Kansas City). The weather here is similar to Detroit so the darker, cloudier winters do not phase me at all; I enjoy the seasons. After the stratospheric housing prices of DC, I am grateful for the lifestyle I can afford here. I know that I could never attain a comparable residence and neighborhood in a booming coastal city or inland "hot spot." I still can't believe what my friends in other communities pay for what they call home.
Final note: I came out in Cleveland right after I moved here in 2004 and the community was extremely friendly and welcoming; best decision I ever made. After having lived more than five years in DC, I am equally grateful that I did not come out there. Despite DC's reputation for its large and lively gay community (which it has), I would not have received the genuine love and support I needed. Cleveland gave me that and still does. Ours is a warmer and more forgiving town than some other places.
I can relate to this quite a bit. I moved here from NH, but I'm originally from St. Louis. My wife got a job at Cleveland Clinic so that's why we moved here. I love midwest friendliness and low cost of living, but Cleveland has quite a few issues. There are great things about the city as well, though. On the positive side, I enjoy our cultural institutions (art museum, orchestra, Playhouse Square). We love the old east side architecture and beautiful old neighborhoods. The food is quite good too. On the downside, there's no way around it, many parts of the city are really ugly! There is a lot of blight and lots of strip malls including big, dead ones. Our roads are godawful. My neighbor was recently pulled over for swerving to avoid potholes! Apparently the officer thought he was drunk. I love road biking but I never ride anymore because our drivers are scary-bad. The crime is terrible. I was in Asiatown last week with my wife and daughter and as we were walking from our car, we heard a gunshot extremely close to us - couldn't have been more than a few blocks away. We live on the edge of Shaker Heights and hear gunshots from here sometimes as well.
I work in the healthcare field, and each major hospital (UH, Cleveland Clinic, Metro) has a nonnegotiable noncompete clause and pays a sub-market salary, so basically medical staff cannot switch hospitals for a better salary. I would say my pay is about 25% lower than salaries around Columbus or Cincinnati, or the Midwest as a whole. I have noticed a lot of burnout among my colleagues due to basically not feeling valued as professionals, since there is such an oversupply. That's why I'm about to start a long commute to a new job in Youngstown, to leave this saturated job market.
The other thing is that our taxes are really, really high. I think 8% sales tax, ~4% state income tax, 2.5% city tax, and another 1%-ish to Shaker Heights is unreasonably high for a city like Cleveland. Even New York City's sales tax is 8.75%. My taxes on a $250k home in Shaker Heights is around $10k/year. The cost of a home in Cleveland is low, but everything else feels expensive due to high taxes.
I love my neighbors and Shaker Heights. Cleveland has some great things about it. But I think we will go back to New Hampshire in a few years' time.
I can relate to this quite a bit. I moved here from NH, but I'm originally from St. Louis. My wife got a job at Cleveland Clinic so that's why we moved here. I love midwest friendliness and low cost of living, but Cleveland has quite a few issues. There are great things about the city as well, though. On the positive side, I enjoy our cultural institutions (art museum, orchestra, Playhouse Square). We love the old east side architecture and beautiful old neighborhoods. The food is quite good too. On the downside, there's no way around it, many parts of the city are really ugly! There is a lot of blight and lots of strip malls including big, dead ones. Our roads are godawful. My neighbor was recently pulled over for swerving to avoid potholes! Apparently the officer thought he was drunk. I love road biking but I never ride anymore because our drivers are scary-bad. The crime is terrible. I was in Asiatown last week with my wife and daughter and as we were walking from our car, we heard a gunshot extremely close to us - couldn't have been more than a few blocks away. We live on the edge of Shaker Heights and hear gunshots from here sometimes as well.
I work in the healthcare field, and each major hospital (UH, Cleveland Clinic, Metro) has a nonnegotiable noncompete clause and pays a sub-market salary, so basically medical staff cannot switch hospitals for a better salary. I would say my pay is about 25% lower than salaries around Columbus or Cincinnati, or the Midwest as a whole. I have noticed a lot of burnout among my colleagues due to basically not feeling valued as professionals, since there is such an oversupply. That's why I'm about to start a long commute to a new job in Youngstown, to leave this saturated job market.
The other thing is that our taxes are really, really high. I think 8% sales tax, ~4% state income tax, 2.5% city tax, and another 1%-ish to Shaker Heights is unreasonably high for a city like Cleveland. Even New York City's sales tax is 8.75%. My taxes on a $250k home in Shaker Heights is around $10k/year. The cost of a home in Cleveland is low, but everything else feels expensive due to high taxes.
I love my neighbors and Shaker Heights. Cleveland has some great things about it. But I think we will go back to New Hampshire in a few years' time.
This seems like a generally fair assessment. Yes there's blight; way too much of it bumping right up to the Shaker Hts. border, in some spots. IMHO there's way too much blight in American cities, generally. In Cleveland I feel the quality areas, in terms of housing diversity, architecture, walkability, natural settings, beauty, etc, greatly outweighs the bad areas.
Yes, the roads are awful, absolutely, but amazingly, they're a bit better than they've been in the last 4 or 5 years, at least many of the main ones. But yes, there are still many streets -- too many -- where one feels as if he or she is riding on the surface of the Moon.
Crime? Gunshot? I haven't heard them in Cleveland, but I certainly have in Philadelphia, where I live most of the year, and my neighborhood is similar to much of Shaker. Unfortunately, that's just American cities these days. Way too many guns around. Social skills are less evident than in any time in my life; and people, especially men, are more prone to violence. Cleveland's a multicultural city, but tends to be very segregated, overall. Shaker, Beachwood, Shaker Square/Larchmere and University Circle, much less so.
As for your comment about bad drivers being "scary bad": I think that's a bit unfair. I've seen much worse in other cities and in Greater Cleveland -- try Boston, New Jersey, Philly and other East Coast areas, where, behind the wheel and esp on a bike, your hair will stand on end. I find drivers in Cleveland more patient and more orderly than most towns -- sure, some knuckleheads exist everywhere...
Yes, sales taxes are high here and RE taxes in Shaker are about astronomical. SH is an old, tradition-rich, upscale suburb with high-level services and a, still, very high-level educational system; but unlike Beachwood, it's housing base is old, with many ramblers-to-outright mansions -- the city places a premium on neighborhood upkeep. And yet, with all that, it is still, in line with the directives of its founders, a bedroom community with a modest commercial presence. It all adds up to high RE taxes. We're all aware of Cleveland's medical prowess, but that's a shame about no-compete contract clause holding down your salary.
I would say, of course, Cleveland is not New Hampshire. No big city is. So if there are things NH can give you Cleveland can't, I can't blame you for wanting to move your family back there. The same general idea applies to the OP and others who feel similarly. Cleveland's a city. It has good aspects and bad -- personally, as American cities go, I feel it has way more upside, esp for its size, than most. But it's not perfect. No place is... If folks feel more comfortable in the suburbs, esp 2nd, 3rd ring ones or ex-urbs, than maybe cities, in general, are not for you. To each his-or-her own.
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