Just another day in Rural Western Washington (living in, store)

[xPlorer48]

Whatcom County just had a big drug bust involving 4 Mexican nationals and one citizen: https://whatcom-news.com/5-arrested-...gation_217524/

There was a big increase in overdoses during the first months of this year compared to last in the downtown area. LEO figured there were more dealers and combined area LEO (sheriff, DEA, Homeland Security, Whatcom County Drug Task Force plus others, investigated and those arrest were made. Just a drop in the bucket and it feels like the Dutch boy’s futile attempts to plug the ****. We need strict border control, stricter sentences, and other suggestions by CalWorth above.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke

It's possible that more treatment centers might be needed for those who really want help, but more treatment centers are not going to solve any drug problems. Treatment barely and rarely succeeds and that is with persons who really want to quit and get their lives back. It is a huge waste of money to treat people who do not wish to be treated, and by far the majority of drug addicts do not wish to be treated. Their only wish is to have access to more drugs. They do not want to quit. If you force them into rehab, it won't stick because they don't want it to stick. Don't waste the taxpayer's money like that, basically throwing it into the incinerator for no return.

Sure, have treatment available for those who have hit rock bottom and sign in voluntarily because they really want to escape their addiction. But that is a very small percentage of the drug addicts. You accomplish nothing by involuntary enrollment except for wasting time and lots of money.

Success rate with meth users who actually want to quit is only 5%. There is absolutely no way that a user who doesn't want to quit will be "cured" by being forced into treatment,

Yes it is true that some if not a large percentage don't really want help....and the drug treatment clinics are just a way point.
Methadone is just a stop gap at best until they can afford the hard stuff. Maybe not all addicts but a larger percentage. yes there are some who want help kicking the habit.

A little side story...I was working in Zurich Switzerland and while waiting for my ride to work, across the road was a line of people waiting for something...I ask a local what was going on over there and he told me they were waiting for their methadone fix...I ask why and he told me methadone was just a temporary fix until their government check would be available so they could buy the real stuff.

So I guess in a way in Switzerland the government is their drug dealer.
He also told me the city parks were not being used by families/children because they were filled up with mostly young drug users shooting up and needles were everywhere. Needles supplied by the government.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

I think we need to re-think a lot of what we've done before with the vagrant addict. I think we need to commit people who cannot take care of themselves, involuntarily if we need to. The prevalence of seriously addicting and destructive drugs has changed the game. Curing would be a nice goal, but my first priority is public safety, and then safety for the addict.

It is not humane or civilized to allow people to drug themselves into a stupor or live in garbage filled camps, IMHO. Public vagrancy is not OK. I'd offer them commitment, treatment or jail. Their choice. I realize politically, this is a hard sell right now, but what we're doing now isn't working. Eventually, we may have to try something else.

If that happened the ACLU would be all over it, just as they were in the 1960 and 70's with the mental impaired housed in mental institutions. That is one reason they are on the streets to begin with.

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by texasdiver

It isn't actually wrong. Many people who are homeless are homeless by choice or because they burned too many bridges back home. But in theory they do have homes to go back to. But sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom to make that happen.

Maybe... but I doubt many families want them back and stealing from them again and again to buy drugs. People can put up with enabling family member for a while, but a line must be set and then set them loose to figure it our for themselves.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by rantiquity

If that happened the ACLU would be all over it, just as they were in the 1960 and 70's with the mental impaired housed in mental institutions. That is one reason they are on the streets to begin with.

The ACLU is one argument, and it's an argument that needs to be considered and weighed against the alternatives. The alternatives I'm seeing play out now aren't better for anyone.

[CrazyDonkey]

Getting trapped in the "black hole" of homelessness is, itself, a factor in causing addiction. I'm all for giving people the "opportunity" to get treatment and options to stabilize their lives. For that, however, they need more than just a "shelter" that forces them to carry all of their belongings with them. Insisting on "housing first" as the only solution is, itself, part of the problem.

I'm for LEAD, but it shouldn't be a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. There should be a limit to how many "diversions" one can get. If someone continues to chronically commit crimes, they should be jailed or committed.

[Diana Holbrook]

Yes, and I would argue the kinds of addictions people are battling make them incapable of getting treatment or making any positive improvement until someone reaches in and takes them out. They aren't capable of making a voluntary choice to get clean under the control of these drugs.

[CalWorth]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

Yes, and I would argue the kinds of addictions people are battling make them incapable of getting treatment or making any positive improvement until someone reaches in and takes them out. They aren't capable of making a voluntary choice to get clean under the control of these drugs.

Since you worked in social services, you must realize that the street people of today who are in their 20's, 30's & even early 40's are the babies that were born addicted to drugs. If they went back to living with their families, they most likely returned to generational drug addiction, crime, domestic violence, dependence on welfare. They did not grow up with a "traditional American" value system or work ethic. Perhaps they spent time in the foster care/group home/juvenile justice cycle as well. There is nothing much to work with or to rehabilitate. They are the future, and then THEY reproduce.

The model that may have worked on previous generations, will not work on the current homeless, addicted generations & their offspring.

[Diana Holbrook]

Originally Posted by CalWorth

Since you worked in social services, you must realize that the street people of today who are in their 20's, 30's & even early 40's are the babies that were born addicted to drugs. If they went back to living with their families, they most likely returned to generational drug addiction, crime, domestic violence, dependence on welfare. They did not grow up with a "traditional American" value system or work ethic. Perhaps they spent time in the foster care/group home/juvenile justice cycle as well. There is nothing much to work with or to rehabilitate. They are the future, and then THEY reproduce.

The model that may have worked on previous generations, will not work on the current homeless, addicted generations & their offspring.

I’m not sure that explains everybody who has gotten themselves addicted to these drugs, I think it’s a lot more complicated than that, but even if what you say about no normal life to return to is true, so what are we do about it?

[rantiquity]

Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook

The ACLU is one argument, and it's an argument that needs to be considered and weighed against the alternatives. The alternatives I'm seeing play out now aren't better for anyone.

The alternatives are never better when it come to the homeless. Most homeless are okay with their life style and drug, alcohol abuse and begging on the streets and government handouts to supplement their use.