Vaccine Mandates - your opinion (George: how much, calculation, exemption)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The vaccine isn't working well against the variants unfortunately. My cousins whole family all got the vax at first availability and they all got the Delta variant anyway. Symptoms varied from mild cold like issues for their young kids, flu like for the older kids and adults, and a hospital stay for her husband with pneumonia like breathing difficulties.
Another cousins family that got the original strain before any vax was available had basically the same illness results in her family. While they claim the "ingredients" are nothing new in the vax, even our Dr. said it's less than 40% effective against the variant, and doesn't stop people from passing the variant on.
Nobody knows the source animal of Ebola either. The biggest outbreak the world has ever seen lasted from 2014-2016. Can we vaccinate against Ebola? Yes we can. The FDA approved Ervebo on December 19, 2019. This is a game changer. Will we ever know the animal source of Ebola? Highly unlikely. But, vaccination is the key to preventing another two year outbreak. Ebola is far more insidious then Covid, but Covid is global, Ebola is not. Yet the medical society was concerned enough about Ebola to find a vaccine. Why do you think that is?
What you're talking is nonsense. Source animals of novel viruses are notoriously hard to find. What can we do about them when they surface and infect humans? Create a vaccine. Develop mitigation strategies, and clinical modalities to fight them.
This is not the end of animal to human transmission of a deadly virus or bacteria, or vector born illnesses from mosquitoes. These challenges are part of our ecosystem, and always will be.
It matters not whether there was an animal to human transmission of an insidious disease or human to human mutations of an insidious disease. What matters is how you eradicate it, and vaccinations are the key.
We have a gift with our vaccines, we have a gift with our advanced medical care and scientists with the best minds in the world working on Covid vaccines and other diseases on the horizon.
The fact that there are so many dumb people out there falling for lies and disinformation is disappointing. So what do you do with the idiot factor? Force a mandate. Want to work. Get vaccinated. Want to attend a social event? Fly? Get vaccinated. It's so simple yet so complex for the kool aid drinking low information crowd.
We have a mask mandate in place in public places whether we are vaccinated or not here. I find them comforting because RSV is circulating early out here. I've had it multiple times. Its not fun.
Out neighbors daughter is home with a 102 fever, and has tested negative for Covid. You know how kids are. I'm sure she caught whatever it is she has by not wearing her mask at an inopportune time or not wearing the right mask.
Covid is spreading like crazy here, and about 25% of infections are in kids. The data is showing that people in unvaccinated areas have the highest mortality and hospitalizations. It's in the CDC's website unless you've been gas lighted to the point of no return by evil politicians only worried about pole numbers pandering to a small base.
The good news? One million people a day are being vaccinated now. Some of the Covidiots have seen the light.
You can research numbers. We are all capable of that. We can also look at nations that have handled this pandemic far better then we have like Singapore with 71,687 cases and 58 deaths. The cases are up there +520 new cases.
The USA 41 million with 660,000 deaths. Our cases are up +36,053 and that includes a whole lot of kids.
My question to you is do you have kids and are you willing to roll the dice with their health concerning Covid? I'm not just talking about death. I'm talking about complications as well.
The science is clear. Areas with higher levels of vaccinations have a lower amount of cases. People who are vaccinated are safer to be around than people who are not for kids.
Those of you more concerned with fake Free dumb and political ideologies that are more important then getting this nightmare under control need to stay home. Quit your jobs. Continuing to spread this is not going to be tolerated by the vast majority of us who are doing the right thing.
Look at what the TSA is doing to the entitled rectums that refuse to wear masks on flights. The fines just doubled and repeat offender could pay $3000 dollars. Is it worth it?
You can blather on about animal infections all you want. I like bottom lines, and my bottom line is how do we get out of this nightmare? With an effective vaccine and masking. That's it. So simple.
In a way, I agree with parts of what you posted, but again, insulting people and assuming that they are idiots is the whole problem.
Many people in my area are less concerned about the effects of Covid and more concerned about the newly-precedented and far-reaching effects of government control caused by the excuse that they call Covid.
To some people, it's not a simple as "do whatever the government tells you, and we will all be fine"...
My issue here, with this vaccine, is that unlike the other diseases and respective vaccines for them, this is all very, very new. Of course the origin of the virus have been questioned, but as far as we know or have been told, none of this issue -or the response aka vaccines- existed 18 months ago. Those other vaccines for other diseases? Well, they all took years or decades of development and testing.
So how are you justified in faulting those of us that want more time and research with something so novel as a new technology going into the arms of millions?
Because individuals are dying in the meantime? Well, that's always the case with every problem. Better ways of dealing with communicable diseases, cancers, accidents, etc have taken long periods of R&D and all the while people died of diseases or had accidents. There is a 100% of dying when you are alive. Some people will fight that but it stands a good chance of always remaining true...
It goes back to how politicized this entire situation has been. People like me like stability and so we see both parties using the situation to go at each other and we're just waiting for information to stay consistent, which has failed to happen in the last 18 months. For example, why are we, as of today, mandated to wear masks OUTSIDE even if we ARE VACCINATED? The information from last summer said that being outside, even without any vaccine, was safe without masks.
Makes some of us concerned about what information will we hear in 6 months about these new vaccines...
I am sorry none of what you say makes a lot of sense to me. Of course, vaccines are new, so is the virus. And, it has killed about 5 million by the official count in about 1.5 years. The unofficial / true count is many times higher. So, sorry if this is going too fast for you but unfortunately it is not fast enough to those dead and dying now - and those getting infected that will be dying in the future. So, sorry if I am not persuaded by your discomfort with the speed, but the entire world is not in a comfortable place. And, if your and other individuals taking more time leads to infections and deaths of others, than it is not without problems either. And, the additional expected health care costs for those exercising their freedom to not vaccinate are borne by others.
I am sorry none of what you say makes a lot of sense to me. Of course, vaccines are new, so is the virus. And, it has killed about 5 million by the official count in about 1.5 years. The unofficial / true count is many times higher. So, sorry if this is going too fast for you but unfortunately it is not fast enough to those dead and dying now - and those getting infected that will be dying in the future. So, sorry if I am not persuaded by your discomfort with the speed, but the entire world is not in a comfortable place. And, if your and other individuals taking more time leads to infections and deaths of others, than it is not without problems either. And, the additional expected health care costs for those exercising their freedom to not vaccinate are borne by others.
Yes - people are dying all the time. But, the excess mortality from Covid-19 is remarkably high.
[url]https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/coronavirus-excess-deaths-tracker[/url]
The United States has a long history of vaccine mandates.
I was listening to the news radio this afternoon and someone mentioned a hospital, out east somewhere (not WA state), that is allowing workers to forgo the vaccine IF and ONLY IF they had had Covid. In other words: They are accepting natural immunity as an alternative to artificial immunity from vaccines.
My sister has take such a test and has determined that she has also already had Covid infection in addition to having been vaccinated.
So my question is: why are we, as a society, not allowing for individuals to choose between natural and artificial immunity at scale? Why are we not testing for natural immunity? Why is this not presented as an option for continued employment when so many, especially those that interface with the public regularly, have already fought -and won- covid?
Anyone mandate-erators want to take a stab at this?
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,712 posts, read 58,054,000 times
Reputation: 46182
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom
... So my question is: why are we, as a society, not allowing for individuals to choose between natural and artificial immunity at scale? Why are we not testing for natural immunity? ...
Very easy explanation.
The USA healthcare system is not capable of determining / quantifying / managing / researching assuring this for the entire population.(especially if it is listening to CDC...) USA Free-dumbs trump any ability to control or even report this. (HIPPA /personal freedom)
Most of USA population is clueless on pandemics and even worse at educating citizens of healthcare protocal, and even much worse at following it!
Simple... just follow the covid numbers, the USA is the antonym of Winning.
The USA healthcare system is not capable of determining / quantifying / managing / researching assuring this for the entire population.(especially if it is listening to CDC...) USA Free-dumbs trump any ability to control or even report this. (HIPPA /personal freedom)
Most of USA population is clueless on pandemics and even worse at educating citizens of healthcare protocal, and even much worse at following it!
Simple... just follow the covid numbers, the USA is the antonym of Winning.
I feel like you are giving me an opinion. You say the health care system is simply not capable of testing for natural immunity, but I know several people that have already undergone a blood test. If it's a matter of not having enough tests... well, you reserve a substantial number of tests by only administering them on unvaccinated individuals. We could also ramp up the number of tests and testing capabilities like we had to do with ventilators and testing kits and PPE.
We don't have to do that at a federal level (CDC). This could be state mandated and/or employer mandated choice.
As for the "USA free-dumbs". I do wonder if giving the "freedom of choice" to either get their immunity naturally or not would appease some of them. Sure, they might possibly die in the process of getting natural immunity (though the overwhelming majority won't) but it would be their choice. People in this country have died over much less deadly things like tea and taxes. They've died defending the country in imaginary or make-believe wars (remember those supposed weapons of mass destruction?).
In any case I wouldn't focus on the second reason anyway.. the first is much easier to tackle through science. I'm left to question authorities, first, if:
1) How does natural immunity compare to artificial immunity?
Secondly,
2) If natural immunity is at least as good as artificial immunity then can we give the option of documenting natural immunity to people who prefer that over taking the vaccine for artificial immunity?
3) If this is possible, how do we create and scale a program to serve this interested population?
I'm sitting here problem solving instead of just complaining about the anti-vaxxers. I think our political parties should try it out instead of just pointing fingers and insulting each other.
"natural immunity" just means catching the virus and not dying from it. It is significantly more risky than the vaccines by several magnitudes. And it isn't actually immunity, it's just reduced risk of being affected by it again, and there is no way to measure how protected a person is. No medical professional would intentionally infect people with a living virus with a mortality rate that high, especially when there is a vaccine that does the exact same thing without the high risks.
It's not an alternative.
"natural immunity" just means catching the virus and not dying from it. It is significantly more risky than the vaccines by several magnitudes. And it isn't actually immunity, it's just reduced risk of being affected by it again, and there is no way to measure how protected a person is. No medical professional would intentionally infect people with a living virus with a mortality rate that high, especially when there is a vaccine that does the exact same thing without the high risks.
It's not an alternative.
You are saying that vaccine effectiveness is stable among people? That every single individual’s immune system reacts in the exact same way and that there is no difference in vaccine response as there isn’t a difference between the available vaccines?
If it’s not “actual immunity” then why is a health care facility accepting it?
What are your credentials to say what you are saying?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
