Hail to the Red....Commanders! (North Beach: live, vs., manufactured)

[Moth]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Because nobody under 30 even remembers those old names, and if they did, it would take a mountain of effort to get enough other under 30-somethings together to start the ole' cancel culture Twitter storm for something there isn't enough good archival Youtube footage to review. When those changes were made over a 1/4 century ago, it was enough of a change to satisfy people and the new brands have had decades to cement.

In 2020, nothing close to the original Redskin name was going to work. Look, "Redhawks" was already being used as a "f-you Snyder, not going to say Redskin back in 2017"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Redhawks

Here is what Danny Boy's team said: "This morning, the Redskins organization was made aware of fraudulent websites about our team name. The name of the team is the Washington Redskins and will remain that for the future."

As late as 2017, Redhawks probably would have worked, and Danny thumbed his nose again and refused to consider ANYTHING. All of the post 2016 election stuff + BLM + George Floyd + Dylan Roof has dramatically changed the way in which 'offensive' names, symbols, and rhetoric is viewed. That change in attitude is seen in the end of Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, and other 'offensive' brand names. Nothing close counted there either, it was TOTAL change or keep facing the scrutiny of the Twitter mob by 2020. I see nothing in 2023 that indicates the world has "soft eyes" towards 1/2 hearted attempts to be less offensive, that age has passed, it was called "the 1990s" and the franchise missed it.

Danny came around somewhere between 5-30 years too late, and I am not the person who makes the rules, I am just a person watching this stuff happen like you.

Don't be silly. They are not old names- they are in use to this day.

Redhawks has nothing to do with George Floyd and all the other things you listed. Neither did Redskins for that matter-- it takes a real low IQ to equate a cop killing someone with the Washington Redskins, but we are a nation of hysterics now.

Redanything will be just fine. And if someone does not like it, they can shove their head down the toilet.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

Nothing Red**** with a modified version of the song, or with dangling feathers, or anything that sniffs of "Redskins" will be accepted. It would be correctly seen as a way to keep the name without keeping the name, which in the mind of the people who demanded it be changed is just as bad. The only shot you guys had at that was the WFT, literally choosing no name, so everyone would remember there used to be a name we can't say anymore, but Danny Boy got rid of that too for the Kommodors, and I doubt WFT can come back now.

You also have the nostalgia problem. When the team gets good again, they won't be allowed to show tons of footage of those 70s/80s teams with the Indian logo on their helmets and apparel, the fans wearing headdresses full of feathers. No one in the media says the word "Redskins" so how they can even heap praise on the past without the pictures or the name?

Again, go expansion route and rebrand completely. The stink of the old name and stink of Snyder hover over that team like a bloated and rotting corpse. Starting over is easier than going back 30 years to a past few people remember anymore and reminding young fans you were the team with stubbornly stuck to an offensive name even when everyone else in the sports world knew it was time to give it up.

"Nothing Red**** with a modified version of the song, or with dangling feathers, or anything that sniffs of "Redskins" will be accepted"

Funny the original assisted coach was an Indian and helped come up with the name.

His tribe showed up in full Indian wear for the naming ceremony.

Over time 2 votes went out to the Indian nation and both times it came with an 80% of the Indians NOT approving with changing the name.

Who should we listen to, the actual Indians, or snowflakes?

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

"Nothing Red**** with a modified version of the song, or with dangling feathers, or anything that sniffs of "Redskins" will be accepted"

Funny the original assisted coach was an Indian and helped come up with the name.

His tribe showed up in full Indian wear for the naming ceremony.

Over time 2 votes went out to the Indian nation and both times it came with an 80% of the Indians NOT approving with changing the name.

Who should we listen to, the actual Indians, or snowflakes?

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/0...redskins-name/

Other polls have shown very different results.

The Post never revealed their methodology, which is pretty suspect. "Many Native scholars have reached out and asked for the [Post’s] data. Or, better yet, show us what your questionnaire was, what are all of the items that you asked? They won’t share it. None of that."

Don't mistake my analysis of the current cultural climate with my personal opinion about something like "Redhawks". That would not offend me.

I don't buy 90% of the modern woke stuff, but man, Redskins is not a nice name to call team. Looking back just a couple of years on it is cringy to me. I don't think the name or image should be purged from existence, but yeah, it's time to move on.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/0...redskins-name/

Other polls have shown very different results.

The Post never revealed their methodology, which is pretty suspect. "Many Native scholars have reached out and asked for the [Post’s] data. Or, better yet, show us what your questionnaire was, what are all of the items that you asked? They won’t share it. None of that."

Don't mistake my analysis of the current cultural climate with my personal opinion about something like "Redhawks". That would not offend me.

I don't buy 90% of the modern woke stuff, but man, Redskins is not a nice name to call team. Looking back just a couple of years on it is cringy to me. I don't think the name or image should be purged from existence, but yeah, it's time to move on.

"Redskins is not a nice name to call team"


But "pale face" used by Indians to describe whites is OK

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

"Redskins is not a nice name to call team"


But "pale face" used by Indians to describe whites is OK

The Fighting Irish is the better example of white caricature in sports

I would be equally opposed to the "Pittsburgh Pale Faces" but we both know such a name would never have come to pass in any era. Redskins isn't nice. I am not going to say it is horrific, an abomination, a war crime, but no it is not a nice word to use. If you called someone that to their face, you could start a conflict, right?

[NJ2MDdude]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

The Fighting Irish is the better example of white caricature in sports

I thought the Fighting Irish nickname was derived from the 69th Infantry Regiment, a military unit comprised mostly of Irish immigrants living in NYC. The were called the Fighting 69th because they fought with distinction during the Civil War.

[Quick Enough]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

The Fighting Irish is the better example of white caricature in sports

I would be equally opposed to the "Pittsburgh Pale Faces" but we both know such a name would never have come to pass in any era. Redskins isn't nice. I am not going to say it is horrific, an abomination, a war crime, but no it is not a nice word to use. If you called someone that to their face, you could start a conflict, right?

Are you an Indian?

Why do you think you have any say in the matter?

Your bio shows you NEVER lived near D.C.

Do you own any stock?

The assistant coach, an INDIAN, came up with the name.

All the tribal leaders showed up in fill dress for the official announcement of the team.

The Indian Nation has voted TWICE on the subject and over 80% are NOT offended.

I could careless what you personally think about it.

I've been a REDSKIN fan my entire life and will CONTINUE no matter what any snowflake "feels"!

We used to be nation of "majority rules". Now what seems whenever few complain we ALL have to bow down to their wishes.

[westsideboy]

Originally Posted by Quick Enough

Are you an Indian?

Why do you think you have any say in the matter?

Your bio shows you NEVER lived near D.C.

Do you own any stock?

The assistant coach, an INDIAN, came up with the name.

All the tribal leaders showed up in fill dress for the official announcement of the team.

The Indian Nation has voted TWICE on the subject and over 80% are NOT offended.

I could careless what you personally think about it.

I've been a REDSKIN fan my entire life and will CONTINUE no matter what any snowflake "feels"!

We used to be nation of "majority rules". Now what seems whenever few complain we ALL have to bow down to their wishes.

We both have an opinion on an internet forum regardless of our race, stock ownership status, and where we live (I live in Cumberland, MD about 140 miles from D.C. I grew up a Redskin fan, we get D.C. channels where I live and always have. The 'skins' are on TV up here every Sunday and had lots of fans. There are still a few left, I am not among them. I have been to D.C. more times than I can count, the burbs in Maryland even more frequently, in case you were wondering. My wife was born in Montgomery County and grew up in the DC burbs. Her grandmother and aunts were/are big Skins fans)

Look, if you want to defend calling a sports team "The Redskins" in 2023, be my guest. I don't have to agree, and I don't. The word is a sour vestige of an era when racial stereotypes were commonly used to brand products. There are worse words than redskin, it doesn't offend everyone, and you can call them that to me all you want, I don't give a crap, I call them the "nullskins" to most of my friends. I am not the one personally offended, but I understand why others are for pretty obvious reasons (you went right for 'pale face' as a retort, so it's just as obvious to you.)

I hope you get your Redtails or Redhawks back if that is what the franchise and fans want. Don't be angry with me for understanding the cultural climate and making an honest assessment of how that process would likely go. I can remove my personal feelings and opinion from the reality that around me when discussing topics with others, will you?

[Moth]

Originally Posted by westsideboy

https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/0...redskins-name/

Other polls have shown very different results.

The Post never revealed their methodology, which is pretty suspect. "Many Native scholars have reached out and asked for the [Post’s] data. Or, better yet, show us what your questionnaire was, what are all of the items that you asked? They won’t share it. None of that."

Don't mistake my analysis of the current cultural climate with my personal opinion about something like "Redhawks". That would not offend me.

I don't buy 90% of the modern woke stuff, but man, Redskins is not a nice name to call team. Looking back just a couple of years on it is cringy to me. I don't think the name or image should be purged from existence, but yeah, it's time to move on.

Don't rewrite history to support your point. That is dishonest.

The Post was very transparent with their poll. It was conducted with standard and legitimate methedology. And contrary to your statement, it backed up what every poll has ever said. Publications like Sports Illustrated found the same thing. Really, it is so hard to accept that most of the indigenous peoples of North America just don't care?

Suddenly, when the truth was unacceptable to the woke, the Post commissioned another effort, this time tweaking it with woke nonsense. There is your suspect poll.

As for the name Redskins, have you never noticed that indigenous peoples aka Indians aka Native Americans do not have red colored skin?

The name change prevailed because a loud but tenacious minority were relentless while the majority never took it seriously. That is often how policy is made and other examples are numerous.

[luv4horses]

Just call the team the “Green Backs” and be done with it (joking).