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You can only do what you can do! I just saw a quote: We don't need 100 perfect vegans, we need 1000 vegans who are trying their best! Every vegan meal is an animal saved in my book.
As for wool and honey, I don't agree that they don't cause harm, but I won't debate it. In my eyes those items are not ours to take, we are using them for it, so that is where the ethical part comes in. But I don't judge anyone who makes that choice, it's a personal choice to make.
Plants are not sentient beings, the do not have a central nervous system and are not alive in the same way that animals are, so no, that is not the same logic.
Plants have a sensory system and are aware of their environment (and often things in it).
Meat eaters say animals are not sentient or alive in the same way humans are, so again, no real difference. You defend your POV exactly as meat eaters defend theirs.
One of the interesting bits of info I learned from this study was from watching a few vegans online (Vegan Gains, etc.).
They made a great point that vegetarians face a double whammy with their diets. Vegetarians don't eat meat, so their levels of uric acid should trend on the low side. Vegetarians also eat plenty of dairy including milk, and that also lowers uric acid. Low levels of uric acid could be just as bad as too high, and low levels in some studies were associated with impairment of cognitive function. That could be one mechanism of stroke which is why vegetarians might have had a higher risk of stroke compared to meat eaters.
I am not entirely a vegetarian because I eat fish. However, I do not eat "lots of dairy" to compensate for meat. I try to avoid dairy as much as possible. I won't say that I never eat it, but I do sparingly.
There is a theory that dairy is addictive. It has been my experience that the less dairy I eat, the less I crave it.
I try to use vegan cheese as much as possible. I haven't drank dairy milk in 20 years.
Plants have a sensory system and are aware of their environment (and often things in it).
Meat eaters say animals are not sentient or alive in the same way humans are, so again, no real difference. You defend your POV exactly as meat eaters defend theirs.
Animals are sentient beings. They have emotions, self awareness, can experience happiness, and they can suffer. That cannot be said about plants. They do not have a brain or a central nervous system.
But let's say for a moment that plants DO suffer. It takes 6 kg of grain to raise 1 kg of beef. That's a lot of plants to produce one cow for consumption.(not to mention the massive amount of water used) If you truly believe that plants suffer, then it would be in the best interest of plants to be vegan because you would be responsible for killing far fewer plants than you would by eating meat.
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I just eat a lot of vegs. My daughter finally turned around, she was against meat, somebody said something in college, now she’s dating a guy that eats meat, so she’s a meat eater again, but don’t eat as much vegs. I just hope they don’t swing too much either way.
I was vegetarian for two years, then added back fish, and now I eat meat again for several reasons.
However, after having been vegetarian, and having a vegan daughter, I don't want to eat meat every day. Learning about vegan food has greatly expanded my menu choices, and often I simply want a meal I like that doesn't include meat.
I also worked for a year in a Chasidic Jewish neighborhood while a vegetarian. The religious dietary practice of separating meat from dairy meant that there were wonderful vegetarian choices and meal combinations you don't see everywhere; for example, vegetables and salad offered as side dishes with eggs for breakfast. You could also get vegetable fritters and burekas knowing that there wasn't any animal fat used in the cooking.
One of the places my daughter and I loved to dine in the town where she went to university had on the menu a vegan plate of black beans and rice, sweet potatoes, and collard greens. I love that meal and eat it frequently. The restaurant charged $18 for it, lol, and it's so much cheaper to make at home. I make enough for at least two meals.
I'm also lucky to live in an area that has several vegan restaurants as well as delis/food stores that sell veg food. There's a food market near me that puts out a hot by-the-ounce buffet near me, and I go there specifically to get their grilled tofu in sweet chili sauce.
Although I admire and understand the passion that non-meat-eaters have for the lives of our four-legged siblings, I see a more practical approach in not preaching but rather normalizing the idea of not needing meals to be centered around a piece of flesh. That mindset in the American diet is a huge obstacle.
I made a vegan lentil shepherd's pie for my family at Christmas. When I told a friend, a definite omnivore (heck, she's a Jew who loves pork!) she said she would like to try it sometimes. I figured she was being polite, but recently she asked, "Hey when are you going to make that lentil shepherd's pie for us? I really want to try it."
I just eat a lot of vegs. My daughter finally turned around, she was against meat, somebody said something in college, now she’s dating a guy that eats meat, so she’s a meat eater again, but don’t eat as much vegs. I just hope they don’t swing too much either way.
My daughter was a vegetarian, then she went back to eating meat, and after a year or so she and her then-boyfriend decided to become vegan. They moved to China, where it was easy to remain plant-based because you don't always know what sort of meat you are eating, and the Chinese will eat anything that walks with its back to the sun.
When she came back, she occasionally fell down the cheese-and-ice-cream hole, but for the most part now I believe she is remaining vegan. She buys vegan shoes, does not wear wool, etc.
Surely the anti-vegans will automatically pounce on this study to 'prove' a vegan diet is unhealthy. But no worries, this was simply an observational study of old data, and vegans and vegetarians were lumped together.
Let this is also be a friendly reminder to ensure you have adequate intake of vitamin B12 and choline in particular. Both are essential for red blood cells and processing of LDL. There are plant based foods that have good sources of choline such as peanuts, broccoli, tofu, soy milk.
Moving back to the topic....
I am not surprised at results of this study. But let me first say this, nobody is any better nor worse than anyone else. I make personal choices in life for what I believe in, and/or what is best for me. It doesn't mean you are less than me if you choose differently and vice versa. What is best for me may not be best for you. You must do for you as I must do for me.
So, back to the topic...the typical vegan diet today for many vegans is filled with processed foods, granted they are plant-based processed foods with added chemical ingredients but processed none the less. This is not ideal for health. The list of ingredients in some of these products is huge, many of which I have no idea what the hell they are. Who can even pronounce these ingredients. IMO healthy food should not come from a laboratory but rather from a garden. Many years ago our family physician (remember them?) was discussing a good healthy diet with me, (this was not about vegan, vegetarian, omni, lo carb, etc etc) and told me when grocery shopping, avoid everything in the aisles, only purchase from the outer portion of the store. Meaning the produce section, the dairy section, bakery section and meat section. Do not buy anything sealed in a box or a bag as they are processed and loaded with preservatives. Buy fresh and live long. IMO he was spot on for a healthy diet. I followed that advice but not religiously for many years, and now after a major health issue, have adopted Dr Dave's advice to a whole-foods-plant-based diet. The typical modern day vegan diet is opposite of what we now know to be healthy or ideal for us. The so-called convience vegan foods are a bane to our health. As Hippocrates said, " let food be thy medicine and let medicine be thy food"
Dr Dave is gone now but my cardiologist says, "we should eat to live, rather than live to eat".
I was vegetarian for two years, then added back fish, and now I eat meat again for several reasons.
However, after having been vegetarian, and having a vegan daughter, I don't want to eat meat every day. Learning about vegan food has greatly expanded my menu choices, and often I simply want a meal I like that doesn't include meat.
I also worked for a year in a Chasidic Jewish neighborhood while a vegetarian. The religious dietary practice of separating meat from dairy meant that there were wonderful vegetarian choices and meal combinations you don't see everywhere; for example, vegetables and salad offered as side dishes with eggs for breakfast. You could also get vegetable fritters and burekas knowing that there wasn't any animal fat used in the cooking.
One of the places my daughter and I loved to dine in the town where she went to university had on the menu a vegan plate of black beans and rice, sweet potatoes, and collard greens. I love that meal and eat it frequently. The restaurant charged $18 for it, lol, and it's so much cheaper to make at home. I make enough for at least two meals.
I'm also lucky to live in an area that has several vegan restaurants as well as delis/food stores that sell veg food. There's a food market near me that puts out a hot by-the-ounce buffet near me, and I go there specifically to get their grilled tofu in sweet chili sauce.
Although I admire and understand the passion that non-meat-eaters have for the lives of our four-legged siblings, I see a more practical approach in not preaching but rather normalizing the idea of not needing meals to be centered around a piece of flesh. That mindset in the American diet is a huge obstacle.
I made a vegan lentil shepherd's pie for my family at Christmas. When I told a friend, a definite omnivore (heck, she's a Jew who loves pork!) she said she would like to try it sometimes. I figured she was being polite, but recently she asked, "Hey when are you going to make that lentil shepherd's pie for us? I really want to try it."
That's how things change, one meal at a time.
MQ, I couldn't agree more! Far too often when people are pushed to do things, they rebel. It is far better to lead by example. When that happens good things follow! As Ghandi once said, "Be the change".....
Moving back to the topic....
I am not surprised at results of this study. But let me first say this, nobody is any better nor worse than anyone else. I make personal choices in life for what I believe in, and/or what is best for me. It doesn't mean you are less than me if you choose differently and vice versa. What is best for me may not be best for you. You must do for you as I must do for me.
So, back to the topic...the typical vegan diet today for many vegans is filled with processed foods, granted they are plant-based processed foods with added chemical ingredients but processed none the less. This is not ideal for health. The list of ingredients in some of these products is huge, many of which I have no idea what the hell they are. Who can even pronounce these ingredients. IMO healthy food should not come from a laboratory but rather from a garden. Many years ago our family physician (remember them?) was discussing a good healthy diet with me, (this was not about vegan, vegetarian, omni, lo carb, etc etc) and told me when grocery shopping, avoid everything in the aisles, only purchase from the outer portion of the store. Meaning the produce section, the dairy section, bakery section and meat section. Do not buy anything sealed in a box or a bag as they are processed and loaded with preservatives. Buy fresh and live long. IMO he was spot on for a healthy diet. I followed that advice but not religiously for many years, and now after a major health issue, have adopted Dr Dave's advice to a whole-foods-plant-based diet. The typical modern day vegan diet is opposite of what we now know to be healthy or ideal for us. The so-called convience vegan foods are a bane to our health. As Hippocrates said, " let food be thy medicine and let medicine be thy food"
Dr Dave is gone now but my cardiologist says, "we should eat to live, rather than live to eat".
While it is true that there is a lot of vegan junk food out there, to say that the typical vegan diet is full of just those things isn't really accurate, IMO. Yes, there are a lot of "junk food vegans" that eat that stuff, but there are also a lot of (and I would say likely more) vegans who are not eating that stuff and eating plants, grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds as their primary foods. Processed vegan food is not marketed to vegans as that is not the target audience. I shop from the outer section of the store...kind of. I start in the produce section, then skip to the areas that have rice and beans/legumes, and I also buy frozen fruits and veggies as well, and a few staples like spices, veggie broth, nutritional yeast, etc. I skip entirely the bakery, butcher counter, and dairy section, UNLESS I am picking up some soy milk, but that's not every week.
I definitely agree with eat to live rather than live to eat. It's a concept that many Americans don't grasp, unfortunately.
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