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Not to be flippant -- but how did they know you were not Mormon? Did you tell them?
After reading this thread and others, it doesn't look all that difficult to tell who is and who isn't. Sadly, the party line seems to be to ask, "Are you Mormon? Oh sorry I won't be able to do business with you, nothing personal."
Personally, however, I prefer to deal with real people.
No, I didn't visit any other Utah towns, and got out of there as quickly as possible. The agents weren't doing anything except sitting there in their offices, and there was not a customer in any of them. But they were certainly swamped with more than they were able or willing to handle.
The truth does tend to bias me in the direction of reality.
it doesn't look all that difficult to tell who is and who isn't.
John -- from your other quotes you seem like a nice guy, so we'll have to disagree on this one. Most Mormons tend to dress conservatively, but I don't see how could could tell for certain just by looking at someone. 40 percent of Iron County, where Cedar City is, is not LDS, so you have a 4 in 10 chance of getting a non-LDS realtor. It's just not adding up to the cut and dry case you are making it out to be, but I wasn't there..
That's nice to know the county is only 60% LDS, i.e. some hope for the rest of us. I notice the average age in the county is 23 years. That is quite young and I wonder what happened to the older folks?
I drove through Cedar City in 1971 and it impressed me as being one of a chain of lovely small towns, with many Cedar trees by a river. Maybe I imagined the river. Last fall it looked like all desert and not many trees at all. The next door neighbors moved to Cedar City a few years ago. They are lds and like it there. I am planning to call and get their feedback.
Tonight I talked with another friend about the things I've been reading here. My friend said "No, what other state will you look at?" I said well I am still thinking of Utah. My friend said that I didn't want to be stoned so that wasn't a good idea. I said well it was just the kids who threw the stones and the adults seem to be friendly. My friend said well if the parents condone that then they would just as likely stone you too. This got me thinking, maybe so, one way or another.
I would like to live in a place where I can live in peace, enjoy the climate and surroundings, as well as some part of community.
It looks like any community in Utah would be reduced by 60 percent, though that still leaves a lot of people. What I wonder is what influence that majority has on the rest. Do they try to pressure everyone else to convert, or else ostracize them. My mom has always said "live and let live", which is how I feel too. I'm sure there is a lot of good in Utah. I wonder if being good my own way is enough.
I think the average age is probably low due to the large family sizes. If you want to see older folks -- go 50 miles south to Saint George -- that place is becoming retirement central. The only siginficant time I've spent in Cedar City is when I was getting engine trouble fixed on my way to Las Vegas. To me all Utah towns look brown and treeless, but I grew up in the Midwest. The mountains and red rocks are nice though.
I don't have the ultimate perspective on what its like to be non-LDS in Utah, but most of my life has been outside of Utah. I have seen a couple of things that do bother me. For example, I was in a job interview, and the lady told me the business owner was very strong LDS and he started all his meetings with prayers. She asked if I had a problem with that. Not really personally, but the question is definitely inappropriate for a job interview and would make some people uncomfortable.
There is pressure for conformity, which I don't like. For example, the boy scouts do a fundraiser every year. If you donate, they put a flag on your lawn every holiday. So everyone can tell who did and did not donate. But I really think for the most part, you wouldn't feel pressure to convert or anything like that, as long as you just politely state your intentions.
My particular neighborhood is probably a 50-50 mix and I personally haven't seen any undue tensions or kids throwing rocks or anything. Bottom line -- don't discount an entire state because of one experience, but do make an informed decision with your eyes open. If you read the experiences of non-LDS folks on this board, there is such a wide variety of opinions.
the business owner was very strong LDS and he started all his meetings with prayers. She asked if I had a problem with that. Not really personally, but the question is definitely inappropriate for a job interview and would make some people uncomfortable.
There is pressure for conformity, which I don't like. For example, the boy scouts do a fundraiser every year. If you donate, they put a flag on your lawn every holiday. So everyone can tell who did and did not donate.
The really scary thing about this is that some of the Mormons posting here seem to think this behavior is "okay", and it's everyone else who just doesn't understand how nice they are. I am not going to generalize to the entire population. Rather this is obviously a well oiled plan of population control that has been going on for some time.
I spoke with another friend of mine who lived with a family in SLC 40 years go. She said the boy scouts would knock on the door and ask her for money. Then the Mormans would knock on the door and ask her for money. She told them she was Catholic. So the next time different Mormons would come, knock on the door and ask her for money. I personally find that extremely offensive, especially knowing how hard she has worked all her life, and that was a particularly trying time where she was working 24 hours trying to make her way in a new country far from home.
I asked if the people she lived with were Mormans and if they gave money when they answered the door. They were physicians. She said, "No, they were Jack-Mormans".
This link is very interesting. It says 80.9 percent of the voters supported George Bush in 2004. Sorry, and I don't want to get into politics but I don't believe that for a second. ""We used to say the Democrats could hold their meetings in a phone booth," joked Washington County Commissioner Alan Gardner, who is also an LDS bishop." Hmmm......
Well if all of the 60% Mormons voted republican, and the other 40% were split 50/50, that would be 80%. But that's quite a stretch. I'm not saying anything about who votes for what etc as that's an individual choice. But it's quite scary to think that either there is so much control over the population that they are scared out of their wits to think for themselves, or else there is an ongoing (and planned) short circuit in the system.
I haven't seen any exit polls for Utah, though have read of thousands of votes that were of a certain party ticket disappearing. And I am not so concerned with politics. What I am looking for is a new place to live. But I am concerned about freedom, independence, and justice, and these are the things I continue to believe in.
It seems to me that there is a powerful force at work, and it's not at all a good thing. Denial doesn't make it go away. It is very good that people are speaking up about their experiences and their fears. It is very helpful to bring these things out in the open.
Well if all of the 60% Mormons voted republican, and the other 40% were split 50/50, that would be 80%. But that's quite a stretch. I'm not saying anything about who votes for what etc as that's an individual choice. But it's quite scary to think that either there is so much control over the population that they are scared out of their wits to think for themselves, or else there is an ongoing (and planned) short circuit in the system.
It seems to me that there is a powerful force at work, and it's not at all a good thing. Denial doesn't make it go away. It is very good that people are speaking up about their experiences and their fears. It is very helpful to bring these things out in the open.
Mormons by nature, are conservative. But you can't say all of them are of the same mold. One of my LDS friends here in grad school, hates Bush and is a die-hard democrat. He says he votes democratic because there is not enough diversity in Utah. I tend to agree with him, though I hold my own personal views about what is best for America.
My in-laws, who are just about as devout Mormons as you will find, voted for Gore in 2000. They consistently vote democratic because my father-in-law is a retired school teacher. They feel that democrats fund education better.
If you look at the election results, 80 percent of New York City voted for Kerry and 89 percent of Berkley did. So the conspiratorial mind-control claims would have to be applied to those populations as well.
I am NOT saying that Utah is perfect. I pointed out the flag example, because it bugs me -- I'm a poor student and I didn't donate because I don't have the money. But when I lived in wealthy Northern Virginia we had as many or more organizations coming to our door asking for money. In Northern Virginia, I couldn't tell you the name of any of my neighbors. At least here, I know the names of all of them on my street. So I'll put up with some quirks for a better overall neighborhood.
The bottom line, as a transplant here myself, is that this is a good place. I just don't like to see overreactions from either side. You might have 10 percent of extremists on each side (and its comes from both LDS and non-LDS) who really have a hard time getting along. The other 80 percent are just fine. Also, you can't expect this forum to give an accurate picture of life here. There is something about anonymity that allows people to say things they would never otherwise.
Lastly, I wouldn't move anywhere if I had serious questions about the schools, safety, values etc. So your worries may preclude Southern Utah for you. But as the article showed, there will soon be a 50-50 split there and it is a huge draw for all sorts of people -- LDS or not. The climate is great and it is beautiful.
john, I'd like to ask a question: in an earlier post you stated that you went to agent after agent in Cedar City and they all "redlined" you (because you weren't a "Mormon"). I grew up in Cedar and, especially since it's a college town, I would be hard-pressed to tell anyone's religion by the way they dressed! I also did a Google search regarding RE agents in Cedar City---evidently in the general area there are over 450 of them! So, how many of them did you actually try to contact? Your post seemed to indicate that you had been rebuffed by all of them.
As a real estate agent yourself, how many "Mormons" have you helped, either buying or selling houses? Do you even know? I mean, there are quite a few members of the church in the SLO, Santa Maria, and Lompoc areas. Can you tell who they are by just looking? Are they particularly obnoxious, or what? And, statistically speaking, one out of every 46 people in CA are "Mormons." Again, can you tell by looking?
All things considered, perhaps you shouldn't move to Utah after all as you are sure to find only those types of "Mormons" that you mention in your posts. Excuse me for being harsh but, human nature being what it is, you'll find only what you are looking for, and you seem to believe only the posters here who denegrate a whole society, and pay little attention to other viewpoints.
as the article showed, there will soon be a 50-50 split there and it is a huge draw for all sorts of people -- LDS or not. The climate is great and it is beautiful.
That would bring it down to 75 percent then.
Yes I am hoping that Utah "is" a good place, which is why it is still one of the main places I am looking. I know the great majority of people are good. It is the extremists that concern me, one way or the other, in particular if they have an absolute and firm control of the majority of the people of the state. It only takes a couple of apples to spoil a whole barrel, the rest of them being exceptionally good. Also I'm not saying that Utah would be unique in that aspect. Though some things are done uniquely, much is the same as anywhere else, though every place has it's own way of doing things. I'm looking at Utah as I'm thinking of moving to Utah, nothing more nothing less.
As to the elections, yes some areas tend one way and others another. I want to comment on this in a non-political way and say that I am 100% for people being able to vote however they wish, without being coerced one way or another by anyone. My real concern, however, is that people's votes are being counted as they had intended, which is a huge national problem based locally. Whether that happens on a grade scale in Utah, I don't know. But I also don't know of any place that it doesn't, so please forgive me for being highly sceptical without any paper trail to the contrary.
I do appreciate your open minded responses and will stay this way too.
You can always tell who are Mormons when they are in a group. They tend to all look the same. Talk about keeping it in the family.
The same with Amish too!
Snowflake Taylor is a town which my ma used to live by, there are plenty of Mormons there. Mormons being conservative is an understatement. I was there getting a haircut talking to the "town-folk" in the barbershop. Dr. Jack Kevorkian came up in the discussion. Needless to say i wanted to get out of there. Overzealous people in my opinion.
As I stated with that message, it was not a religious issue to me, and no one asked me my religion. That would have been fun. Anyway I definitely noticed an attitude, time after time with every Cedar City office that I visited. No I didn't talk with every agent in town, and I didn't visit every office, only the ones that I found and were open. Some of them were closed. The agents I did talk with were friendly, but they had no time to show me any neighborhoods. One of the agents was very helpful and couldn't leave the office but ran off some lists of homes for me to drive by. I wasn't rebuffed by any agent. Again, most all of the agents were friendly, but just had no time to show me around, but then they also weren't doing anything else. My feeling is that they were doing things the standard way that is done there and, having just come from out of town, I didn't fit in that plan. Again, I think they would know that I didn't live in their neighborhood, or go to their church, particularly as has been noted that lists are kept of such things.
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As a real estate agent yourself, how many "Mormons" have you helped, either buying or selling houses?
I really have no idea. I never asked anyone their religion and it wouldn't make any difference to me, except if they were blatently prejudiced to somebody else. Most of the people I have worked with have been very nice people. I am surprised there are 46% Mormons in California and that is quite reassuring, which means I have helped a lot of them to buy or sell homes.
The only ones I know of were my previous neighbors from next door, who were very nice people, and a woman who was in a club I was in, who was not nice at all, and not clean at all either. I sure hope there are none in Utah like that. A difference here is there is not the same (type of) control of the population as there is in Utah.
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you seem to believe only the posters here who denegrate a whole society, and pay little attention to other viewpoints.
You just suggested I don't move there, so how is your viewpoint any different.
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Anyway I definitely noticed an attitude, time after time with every Cedar City office that I visited. No I didn't talk with every agent in town, and I didn't visit every office, only the ones that I found and were open. Some of them were closed. The agents I did talk with were friendly, but they had no time to show me any neighborhoods. One of the agents was very helpful and couldn't leave the office but ran off some lists of homes for me to drive by. I wasn't rebuffed by any agent. Again, most all of the agents were friendly, but just had no time to show me around, but then they also weren't doing anything else. My feeling is that they were doing things the standard way that is done there and, having just come from out of town, I didn't fit in that plan. Again, I think they would know that I didn't live in their neighborhood, or go to their church, particularly as has been noted that lists are kept of such things.
