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Sorry for chiming in here since I'm not a teacher. Would your school put that down in writing that at the end of next year's teaching you will be denied tenure? Would this be possibly recorded in your next year's contract?
By the school actually making a projection like that to me sounds like grounds for litigation. How can you be denied tenure before you have even started the year. On what grounds would they use? Potential incompetence? Especially since you must have done a satisfactory job this year having been offered a contract for the coming year.
Your school has scumbags in the administration. To me, it's a ploy to avoid potentially having to pay unemployment.
Approach them on this tenure issue right away and see if they're still standing by this and make sure that it's documented. Otherwise, after next school year ends their actions could really hurt future teaching job possibilities. If you can get it documented, consult an attorney (or also the union if it has any clout in your area) about what your options are in the future.
Sorry for chiming in here since I'm not a teacher. Would your school put that down in writing that at the end of next year's teaching you will be denied tenure? Would this be possibly recorded in your next year's contract?
By the school actually making a projection like that to me sounds like grounds for litigation. How can you be denied tenure before you have even started the year. On what grounds would they use? Potential incompetence? Especially since you must have done a satisfactory job this year having been offered a contract for the coming year.
Your school has scumbags in the administration. To me, it's a ploy to avoid potentially having to pay unemployment.
Approach them on this tenure issue right away and see if they're still standing by this and make sure that it's documented. Otherwise, after next school year ends their actions could really hurt future teaching job possibilities. If you can get it documented, consult an attorney (or also the union if it has any clout in your area) about what your options are in the future.
This is what baffles me. If you've already decided I'm not going to tenure, why invite me back at all? I was fine with the lay off, which would have allowed me to draw UI retroactive to June and if I didn't find something, would have left me open to sub next year (not great pay but a great way to try on a district and have them try you on). I really don't get this.
I'm told that I have a perception problem. Parents seem to think that the other teacher (no matter what subject if you ask my principal) is better than me even though there is no data to support that. A rumor got out that the other math teacher gave more A's first quarter than I did (not true but believed by the parents) and there were several requests to move kids from my class. Instead of telling parents that these rumors are not true, the admins just move kids which fuels the rumors. I think I had a snowball go down a hill. Rumors started, requests were made, kids moved and then other parents started wondering why those kids moved and so on and so on and so on.
I am PO'd about the recall. I would much rather spend the year subbing and live off of my IRA than spend a year with a big red target on my back. There can be no doubt that every little thing I do wrong will be documented and blown out of proportion next year (and we all have things we do wrong as none of us are perfect). I don't care what teacher you're talking about, I can find kids and parents who don't like them and if I write a PR based only on their statements, it will look horrible. I have no doubt this is my fate.
For crying out loud, if the decision is already made, let me go under the terms that best preserve my ability to support my family. Why bring me back for a year from hell before denying tenure when there is nothing I can do to fix this. I've been told that unless parents are requesting into my classes at the beginning of next year, next year is my last. THAT is not going to happen. While I could live down a perception problem, with the support of my admins, in 3 or 4 years, I cannot turn this around in 3 months without their help.
I think you're right about legal action but I fear with the current atmosphere towards teachers that an jury would side with the school. There is this perception that it is IMPOSSIBLE to get rid of a bad teacher so I fear that a jury would conclude that I MUST BE HORRIBLE for them to get rid of me when there is no data to support that I am any less effective than the next teacher over. I know this to be true because my principal tried to prove that and failed. So now he's on to my "perception" problem. I think my only problem is the district lets parents pick teachers and I'm just not liked (I'm a no nonsense teacher with high expectations for learning for my students.). Unfortunately, it's easier to replace me than deal with parents who are unhappy about their child being in my class. Also, I'd expect parents in a case like this to be hyper reactive to every little thing. Humans have this nasty habit of seeing what fits their paradigms and ignoring what doesn't as my principal ignores the data that says I'm as effective as the other teachers.
Because they feel they can't someone to replace you this year and it will give them a year to recruit someone.
At the expense of my teaching career given how badly denial of tenure is viewed.
This is stupid. I'm good enough to have one more year but not good enough to keep and they're playing with my ability to earn a living. This is morally wrong on so many levels. I just don't know if a teacher can win in court. Given that people think it's so hard to get rid of us (not true), I fear a jury would think I must be AWFUL that they went to the trouble to get rid of me.
My problem is my principal just doesn't like me. The joke in the school is that if we want something done, I should suggest the opposite to the principal and he'll shoot me down. Sadly, all I had to do to avoid this was give more A's. Then the parents and the kids would have loved me.
I am going to bust butt this summer to find something else. I thought I had a year to let this play out and to sub, if necessary, which would have been a good thing as two districts I'm really interested in tend to hire from their sub pool. Drawing unemployment retroactive to June would have made that possible. We're talking $8000 in UI benefits I would have been able to draw through December if I didn't find work. Not a ton but enough that it would really help me get through. Not going back now means I can't draw until December because I have a job offer for August.
What the hell gives them the right to play with someone's life like this? They know what denial of tenure does to my future. Right now, I'm praying for an engineering job that starts on September 1st and I get to leave them high and dry.
At the expense of my teaching career given how badly denial of tenure is viewed.
This is stupid. I'm good enough to have one more year but not good enough to keep and they're playing with my ability to earn a living. This is morally wrong on so many levels. I just don't know if a teacher can win in court. Given that people think it's so hard to get rid of us (not true), I fear a jury would think I must be AWFUL that they went to the trouble to get rid of me.
You would not have a case in court. It has to do with the nature of teacher employment, which I explained in another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1
Since you aren't a teacher it might help to explain a few things. Teacher employment is not done like a regular job, they are like a hybrid of employee and contractor. Each year the school system "negotiates" a new contract with particular teachers they would like to continue teaching in their schools. Tenure happens because the school system has chosen to renew your contract a certain number of years in a row. Tenure means you no longer have to renew your contract each year, it is now automatic, often times it is referred to as a continuing contract. Tenure is not a guarantee, and they don't have to justify not granting it, they merely have to decide not to "renegotiate" with you prior to the magic number of years, which varies by state. Her principal has, in some form, let her know, as things stand right now, she will not be offered a contract for the 2014-2015 school year as that will put her into tenure status. It is no different that Nike telling an XYZ ad agency we are not renewing our contract with you next year. They don't have to explain why they are not offering that contract, they are simply severing the relationship. Teacher contracts work that way to a large degree, once a contract renewal is not offered the relationship between the school system and the teacher simply ceases to exist. One difference, and this falls in the employee/contractor hybrid category, is that a teacher whose contract is not renewed can receive unemployment. State unemployment agencies do not consider non-renewal of non-tenured teachers a firing, it is treated like being laid off.
Once someone is in tenure status, it is no longer about offering or not offering a contract, it is about breaking a contract. That requires justified cause. The school system has to actually take the time to document their reasons, those reasons must be legitimate, and they have to give you the opportunity to fix them. It is very, very difficult, time consuming, and costly for school systems to do this, so they rarely do. State unemployment agencies generally treat this like a firing, and they should, because that is what it is.
This is why principals will keep a teacher they are iffy about up to the year that tenure kicks in. Teachers they think have issues of some sort, but that aren't horrible, they keep because it is easier than hiring someone new, not to mention they are a known entity, so long as they aren't going to be permanently stuck with them.
Ivory and her administrator have had numerous clashes. Regardless of who is right or wrong, it is highly doubtful he will create a situation where he can't get rid of her. By the way, when your contract is not renewed right before tenure eligibility the administration of every teaching job you apply for realizes this is the way it works. It says to the gaining system This person isn't totally incompetent but there are issues with some aspect of them. She needs to find a different job before that happens if it is possible.
I really do think this deserves its own thread, like you originally started, because people really don't understand how fragile teacher's jobs are and how arbitrarily they can be let go when they are not tenured. I'm not sure why you preferred the conversation on this part of the forum.
I am going to bust butt this summer to find something else.
I hope you do find something else, whether in teaching or engineering, because if you go back to the same school you'll probably be looking for work next summer. Better to do it on your own terms. Is it fair? No.
I hope you do find something else, whether in teaching or engineering, because if you go back to the same school you'll probably be looking for work next summer. Better to do it on your own terms. Is it fair? No.
I just have to. That's all there is to it. As much as it would have been a financial hardship to sub next year, I was relieved to be out of this situation. I, seriously, felt sick to my stomach after reading that email.
I think you're right. I think he had a candidate in mind and it fell through. He doesn't like me but I'm not awful so he'll keep me and hope he can find someone he likes better next year and there's not a darned thing I can do about it. However, if he denies me tenure, that is the end of my teaching career. While I may end up back in engineering, I'd rather that be by my choice and not his design.
No one ever said life was fair but it would be nice now and again.
I just have to. That's all there is to it. As much as it would have been a financial hardship to sub next year, I was relieved to be out of this situation. I, seriously, felt sick to my stomach after reading that email.
I think you're right. I think he had a candidate in mind and it fell through. He doesn't like me but I'm not awful so he'll keep me and hope he can find someone he likes better next year and there's not a darned thing I can do about it. However, if he denies me tenure, that is the end of my teaching career. While I may end up back in engineering, I'd rather that be by my choice and not his design.
No one ever said life was fair but it would be nice now and again.
I am so sorry to hear about what has happened, esp. because of a "perception" problem. They are jerks.
It is wrong but my district has also done that to teachers (tell them that they would be non-renewed at the end of the following year). Sometimes it is because they want them to quit, sometimes it is because they need more time to find a replacement and sometimes the district didn't follow non-renewal procedures in a timely manner.
The truth is we are not hired to impart knowledge or wisdom. Critical thinking / problem solving are four-letter words in education. We are to teach to the test and have better than expected grades for our students.
Anything more is insubordination, anything less is blasphemy.
The truth is we are not hired to impart knowledge or wisdom. Critical thinking / problem solving are four-letter words in education. We are to teach to the test and have better than expected grades for our students.
Anything more is insubordination, anything less is blasphemy.
I wish you were wrong but you're not. Sadly, I went into teaching to impart knowledge and teach critical thinking and problem solving skills. Things I saw seriously lacking in the new grads I saw hired into the company in my last few years working there.
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