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One of the websites says they're aiming for delivery in the first quarter of next year. Not sure if the living tour will involve a model unit or just some leasing people with blueprints and renderings.
It is a very good location, not to mention an innovative reuse of a fairly large office building (wonder what Maureen Green would say about that?).
It's just too bad that the state of private investment in Syracuse is such that a developer like Washington Street Partners can keep collecting incentives to produce such mediocre projects. The city and county understandably want to throw money at infill development. Trouble is, that disincentivizes developers who could otherwise get full financing from fully monetizing the square footage of their buildings. In effect, the city and state just subsized a couple dozen parking spaces (which will rent for under a dollar per square foot, if that) while rewarding Fayette Street passersby with a dead street wall for the next couple decades (thereby making it more difficult for the neighborhood to truly be viable).
That space on Fayette is terrific. In essense it looks like a giant display case, perfect for any kind of business or restaurant, really. The problem is that there still isnt much demand for retail space downtown outside of Armory Square, let alone large spaces. I worked on the Deys project two years ago and it was very difficult to find tenants for various retail concepts we had for the first floor. They just got Cafe Kabul in there this past winter. We had all sorts of renderings and concepts and all were very hard to fill. At this point and in a market like Syracuse, the reality is that most of your downtown retail tenants are going to be mom and pop-type operations, and it is much more difficult to track them down, much less get them to take a big spot like that fayette street space. That is in addition to the fact that the building has no indoor or guaranteed parking currently, which would scare away many retailers (national and local) in a market like Syracuse and make the apartments and office space upstairs harder to rent (I agree there is plenty of other parking downtown, but apparently if the spot isnt right there it doesnt exist to most people).
The fact of the matter is without the incentives this project would not get done any time soon where it sits, even with slow momentum building towards South Salina. It would be very difficult in the current market to fill a space like that and generate the required cash flow just by building it all out spec retail. So its really a matter of how pragmatic are you. Do you get it done today while there is developer interest and add 40+ residents to the downtown population and potentially some more office and retail workers? Or do you wait for the market to pick up and the ideal project to come along? That could take years which an older, neglected building may not have. Add to that the chicken and the egg question with downtown in general (need more retail to draw more people downtown and increase vitality, but need more people downtown to draw more retail)
That space on Fayette is terrific. In essense it looks like a giant display case, perfect for any kind of business or restaurant, really. The problem is that there still isnt much demand for retail space downtown outside of Armory Square, let alone large spaces. I worked on the Deys project two years ago and it was very difficult to find tenants for various retail concepts we had for the first floor. They just got Cafe Kabul in there this past winter. We had all sorts of renderings and concepts and all were very hard to fill. At this point and in a market like Syracuse, the reality is that most of your downtown retail tenants are going to be mom and pop-type operations, and it is much more difficult to track them down, much less get them to take a big spot like that fayette street space. That is in addition to the fact that the building has no indoor or guaranteed parking currently, which would scare away many retailers (national and local) in a market like Syracuse and make the apartments and office space upstairs harder to rent (I agree there is plenty of other parking downtown, but apparently if the spot isnt right there it doesnt exist to most people).
The fact of the matter is without the incentives this project would not get done any time soon where it sits, even with slow momentum building towards South Salina. It would be very difficult in the current market to fill a space like that and generate the required cash flow just by building it all out spec retail. So its really a matter of how pragmatic are you. Do you get it done today while there is developer interest and add 40+ residents to the downtown population and potentially some more office and retail workers? Or do you wait for the market to pick up and the ideal project to come along? That could take years which an older, neglected building may not have. Add to that the chicken and the egg question with downtown in general (need more retail to draw more people downtown and increase vitality, but need more people downtown to draw more retail)
Good points. For instance, I was at Green Hills Farms the other day and was thinking that a grocery store like this could be a nice addition to Downtown due to the size, variety and quality of the store. Plus, it is local. I just wonder if they would consider it though.
Two new articles in the post standard about construction: 831 W. Fayette St. Dineen Hall
I like the idea behind the Fayette street project and it should help the Near Westside.
By the time the "air quality issues" are resolved, all of the "interested" nanotech firms will have established operations in Marcy or Canandaigua. It now makes perfect sense why we haven't heard anything about the nanochip facility that was interested in relocating to CNY. In January, Chuck Schumer stated Syracuse was perfectly suited for the nanochip plant because Salina was the only facility in the state with a foundry certified by the Department of Defense (DOD). It was announced last month, that a nanotech center in Canandaigua recently received the same DOD designation with the assistance of substantial state money and assistance from the Cuomo Administration making it well positioned to land the chip plant proposed by the CA company. Instead of providing additional money to build a new facility on University Hill, downtown or a more desirable suburban area that would enable the Syracuse project to move forward after 2 years of delays, the state would rather spend more money to support the Rochester area by giving what was once a photonics research center in Canandaigua the capability to attract the companies, investment, and jobs that were once planned for Syracuse.
If or when the environmental issues have been resolved, the project (if there ever was one) will be scaled down further to meet a $28 million budget that was based on 2010 dollars. This sounds like another half baked failure like the Center of Excellence and the Biotech Center which was proposed 10 years ago and was delayed for nearly a decade due to a lack of state funding and location challenges.
Try as I might, including a visit to WSYR9, I can't seem to open the link you posted. I found this in the P-S which seems to have a different take:
I agree, I am concerned about Rochester's "inside track" on this technology. I was encouraged by the P-S article, but would not be surprised if the powers that be in Albany direct investment to Rochester/Canandaiqua. We all know where the Lt. Gov. is from!
I agree, I am concerned about Rochester's "inside track" on this technology. I was encouraged by the P-S article, but would not be surprised if the powers that be in Albany direct investment to Rochester/Canandaiqua. We all know where the Lt. Gov. is from!
It looks like the story was removed from Channel 9's website. Perhaps the cheerleaders at CenterState didn't like the tone of the story. I noticed the P-S piece was much more optimistic. Here is a link that includes a mere sentence in the original article from a nanosience website.
It looks like the story was removed from Channel 9's website. Perhaps the cheerleaders at CenterState didn't like the tone of the story. I noticed the P-S piece was much more optimistic. Here is a link that includes a mere sentence in the original article from a nanosience website.
You may be right, either centerstate didn't like the tone or WSYR9 got it wrong. In either case, someone at centerstate must have called the P-S for the latest piece.
In any event, I read that the "buildout" will take 12 to 18 months after air quality issues are resolved, how big is this plant? You don't get much for $28 million, esp. a nano plant. Or, are they talking renovations? I may be getting into semantics and nitpicky.
After giving it some thought though, Syracuse was selected because of Lockheed and the space is available on their Salina campus. Rochester may get future investments, but this one I think is a go for Salina. I could be wrong, but I hope those two hundred and fifty (very) high-paying jobs heads to Salina.
That space on Fayette is terrific. In essense it looks like a giant display case, perfect for any kind of business or restaurant, really. The problem is that there still isnt much demand for retail space downtown outside of Armory Square, let alone large spaces. I worked on the Deys project two years ago and it was very difficult to find tenants for various retail concepts we had for the first floor. They just got Cafe Kabul in there this past winter. We had all sorts of renderings and concepts and all were very hard to fill. At this point and in a market like Syracuse, the reality is that most of your downtown retail tenants are going to be mom and pop-type operations, and it is much more difficult to track them down, much less get them to take a big spot like that fayette street space. That is in addition to the fact that the building has no indoor or guaranteed parking currently, which would scare away many retailers (national and local) in a market like Syracuse and make the apartments and office space upstairs harder to rent (I agree there is plenty of other parking downtown, but apparently if the spot isnt right there it doesnt exist to most people).
The fact of the matter is without the incentives this project would not get done any time soon where it sits, even with slow momentum building towards South Salina. It would be very difficult in the current market to fill a space like that and generate the required cash flow just by building it all out spec retail. So its really a matter of how pragmatic are you. Do you get it done today while there is developer interest and add 40+ residents to the downtown population and potentially some more office and retail workers? Or do you wait for the market to pick up and the ideal project to come along? That could take years which an older, neglected building may not have. Add to that the chicken and the egg question with downtown in general (need more retail to draw more people downtown and increase vitality, but need more people downtown to draw more retail)
I understand that the retail market is soft; I was under the impression, though, that there is sub-grade parking available in that building (I don't know how much, but I've seen Trader Joe's open in similar spaces with only a couple dozen parking spots). Seems short-sighted to divide that great first-floor space as they're doing.
In a perfect world, lose the office space, add a few more apartments (whose residents may lease parking in the basement garage), and put the first-floor retail on the market. If it finds a great tenant (or series of tenants) after two years, as has happened in the Dey's Building, residents will probably consider it well worth the wait.
Edit: But, as UrbanPlanner noted, you make good points. It's a chicken-and-egg problem, and I shouldn't pretend to know the answer.
I understand that the retail market is soft; I was under the impression, though, that there is sub-grade parking available in that building (I don't know how much, but I've seen Trader Joe's open in similar spaces with only a couple dozen parking spots). Seems short-sighted to divide that great first-floor space as they're doing.
In a perfect world, lose the office space, add a few more apartments (whose residents may lease parking in the basement garage), and put the first-floor retail on the market. If it finds a great tenant (or series of tenants) after two years, as has happened in the Dey's Building, residents will probably consider it well worth the wait.
Edit: But, as UrbanPlanner noted, you make good points. It's a chicken-and-egg problem, and I shouldn't pretend to know the answer.
I'm not sure there's underground parking in that one - the footprint's rather small for it. The long-empty former NYNEX building on Washington may be the one you're thinking of? That does, I believe.
I'm not sure there's underground parking in that one - the footprint's rather small for it. The long-empty former NYNEX building on Washington may be the one you're thinking of? That does, I believe.
I recall reading about additional basement parking, though that could've been incorrect. But the website mentions 77 parking spots, which seems more than the ground floor could accommodate.
By the way, I was over there this morning and it looks like the larger retail square footage that you cited was the correct one - the paper is off the windows and the whole Warren Street frontage has been divided. Not a big space, but at least twice the size of the two separate spaces that were depicted on the other floor plan.
A forty year old Buckley Road hotel that lost its affiliation with Quality Inn several years ago and operated independently as the "United Inn" will be demolished according to a report in The Post-Standard. In recent years, the budget motel hosted late night parties that at times became raucous. The most recent incident occurred two weeks ago and involved a large fight and shots fired into the parking lot that police believe may have resulted in a rivalry between two city gang members.
Demolition should be completed within two months. The owner plans to redevelop the site eventually.
This is great news, although I feel bad for the impacted employees. In recent years that hotel had become a real blight to the immediate area, which is stable and surrounded by a mix of well maintained mid-range priced hotels, casual and fast food restaurants and office space with minimal violent crime. In my opinion a vacant lot is a big improvement for what became of that property.
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