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Old 07-25-2023, 08:53 AM
 
17,568 posts, read 15,232,801 times
Reputation: 22880

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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
"Cheap" was relative. Yes, you could get a new car for $2000 in 1970 but it was a bare bones one. Compare "base" model 1970 to "base model 2020. ABS, radio, airbags, EFI, power brakes and steering, most likely power windows, automatic, etc.

Now, some of the above is due to legislative fiat.

That 'bare bones' car, if we were allowed to sell it today, as you described, without all the creature comforts and safety items.. Would instantly be the lead selling car brand in the world.

Sure, there'd be the Yugo jokes and kids would make fun of other kids who got dropped off at school in one of them.

But they'd sell.
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Old 07-25-2023, 09:01 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,337 posts, read 60,522,810 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
That 'bare bones' car, if we were allowed to sell it today, as you described, without all the creature comforts and safety items.. Would instantly be the lead selling car brand in the world.

Sure, there'd be the Yugo jokes and kids would make fun of other kids who got dropped off at school in one of them.

But they'd sell.
But that's not going to happen, especially the safety items. And no, a bare bones car without a radio, automatic, A/C, power windows wouldn't be the lead selling car brand. It would sit on the lots for months.

I tend to buy base model F150s (as well as Tauruses when they were still being sold) and I never paid MSRP, there was always massive rebates, both dealer and manufacturer, on them. Why? Because they had sat on the lots for months.

The last F150 I bought, a 2014, I had been watching online for three months. It was an XL Super Crew. Every week another grand was knocked off. If my then current truck hadn't lost the rearend when it did I would have waited another month. As it was I got a bit over $10K off a $35K truck.
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Old 07-25-2023, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Coastal Mid-Atlantic
6,734 posts, read 4,415,474 times
Reputation: 8366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
That 'bare bones' car, if we were allowed to sell it today, as you described, without all the creature comforts and safety items.. Would instantly be the lead selling car brand in the world.

Sure, there'd be the Yugo jokes and kids would make fun of other kids who got dropped off at school in one of them.

But they'd sell.

I'd stay away from all the boxer type engines. Read up on their problems. I would never use the word legendary and Subaru in the same sentence.
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Old 07-25-2023, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,384 posts, read 9,483,835 times
Reputation: 15848
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
But that's not going to happen, especially the safety items. And no, a bare bones car without a radio, automatic, A/C, power windows wouldn't be the lead selling car brand. It would sit on the lots for months.

I tend to buy base model F150s (as well as Tauruses when they were still being sold) and I never paid MSRP, there was always massive rebates, both dealer and manufacturer, on them. Why? Because they had sat on the lots for months.

The last F150 I bought, a 2014, I had been watching online for three months. It was an XL Super Crew. Every week another grand was knocked off. If my then current truck hadn't lost the rearend when it did I would have waited another month. As it was I got a bit over $10K off a $35K truck.
Yes, a good deal of safety equipment is required by law. And when it comes to technology, comfort and convenience features - I think most people want those things. For example, there are those who insist that people don't want an automatic transmission, they want manual transmissions, yet, the sales numbers clearly show that it's not many people who want a manual transmission - they're out there alright, but they're greatly outnumbered by those who want an automatic, that's why the manual gets dropped in vehicle after vehicle.
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Old 07-25-2023, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
4,543 posts, read 3,744,949 times
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Have the CVTs in Subarus been beefed up and up to par now? I heard they were. They should've had plenty of time to make them reliable. Nissan used to have junk CVTs but are much more dependable now.
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Old 07-25-2023, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Sunnybrook Farm
4,511 posts, read 2,656,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RcHydro View Post
I'd stay away from all the boxer type engines. Read up on their problems. I would never use the word legendary and Subaru in the same sentence.
Nothing wrong with horizontally opposed engines! With modern fuel injection the induction system really isn't much more complicated than an inline.
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Old 07-25-2023, 01:38 PM
 
17,568 posts, read 15,232,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutdoorLover View Post
Yes, a good deal of safety equipment is required by law. And when it comes to technology, comfort and convenience features - I think most people want those things. For example, there are those who insist that people don't want an automatic transmission, they want manual transmissions, yet, the sales numbers clearly show that it's not many people who want a manual transmission - they're out there alright, but they're greatly outnumbered by those who want an automatic, that's why the manual gets dropped in vehicle after vehicle.

In the US.. yes.. though, the vehicle I describe, while I know it couldn't happen.. Just like you couldn't have a vehicle with a carb anymore, most likely, due to EPA fuel mileage regulations.

If that car was available.. it would have a market. And a strong one.

Case in point.. The Pinto. It was a stripped down little thing. The base models didn't have AC.. might have had an AM radio. and.. Those things sold well.

Maybe it wouldn't be the top selling car in the US, where we have a buttload of 'first world problems' and people couldn't live without their power windows and door locks and cruise control and integrated butt wiper.. But, there'd still be a strong market. And, worldwide.. I think it WOULD be the best selling car. Places like India, you'd probably have a ton of them on the roads, replacing the mopeds they have now. England and the like where alot of people don't own cars, perhaps.
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Old 07-25-2023, 02:11 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,337 posts, read 60,522,810 times
Reputation: 60924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
In the US.. yes.. though, the vehicle I describe, while I know it couldn't happen.. Just like you couldn't have a vehicle with a carb anymore, most likely, due to EPA fuel mileage regulations.

If that car was available.. it would have a market. And a strong one.

Case in point.. The Pinto. It was a stripped down little thing. The base models didn't have AC.. might have had an AM radio. and.. Those things sold well.

Maybe it wouldn't be the top selling car in the US, where we have a buttload of 'first world problems' and people couldn't live without their power windows and door locks and cruise control and integrated butt wiper.. But, there'd still be a strong market. And, worldwide.. I think it WOULD be the best selling car. Places like India, you'd probably have a ton of them on the roads, replacing the mopeds they have now. England and the like where alot of people don't own cars, perhaps.
Yes they sold well. The "expectations" of what a person wanted in a car were also different then. A/C wasn't found on anything except the mid and high level cars in the size right above the Pinto (even in the top level 1976 Grand Prix (I think it was the LJ) A/C was an option. So was a radio.

Just like houses, what people expect in a car has "evolved" in the interceding decades. Whether that's good or bad is another question.
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Old 07-25-2023, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
12,384 posts, read 9,483,835 times
Reputation: 15848
Quote:
Originally Posted by Labonte18 View Post
In the US.. yes.. though, the vehicle I describe, while I know it couldn't happen.. Just like you couldn't have a vehicle with a carb anymore, most likely, due to EPA fuel mileage regulations.

If that car was available.. it would have a market. And a strong one.

Case in point.. The Pinto. It was a stripped down little thing. The base models didn't have AC.. might have had an AM radio. and.. Those things sold well.

Maybe it wouldn't be the top selling car in the US, where we have a buttload of 'first world problems' and people couldn't live without their power windows and door locks and cruise control and integrated butt wiper.. But, there'd still be a strong market. And, worldwide.. I think it WOULD be the best selling car. Places like India, you'd probably have a ton of them on the roads, replacing the mopeds they have now. England and the like where alot of people don't own cars, perhaps.
I totally agree that many people would welcome a less expensive car - you hear that a lot right here. There would have to be some compromises to lower costs, and what I am personally less sure of is what most budget buyers would deem acceptable compromises. At least to my thinking, I could do without leather seats or a sunroof, maybe even without Apple CarPlay/Android Auto and power windows. But I would want A/C, disk brakes, and the car would have to be reliable, reasonably long lived, and safe - at least as safe as a small car can be. Format-wise, to me a 2-door hatchback is a good formula for a practical, inexpensive small car.

Even in the US, they sold a fair number of Smart Cars and Fiat 500s - and I think they could have sold many more if they were reliable and well built. If you go a little bigger, they certainly sold a lot of VW Golfs, Hyundai Konas, Kia Souls, and Honda Fits.
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Old 07-25-2023, 11:08 PM
 
Location: Northern California
4,601 posts, read 2,990,451 times
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Since vehicles last longer now than in decades past, shoppers on a budget can buy used cars.

Also, deleting almost-standard features (e.g. a/c) from an existing model might not save
the manufacturer much expense, so there wouldn't be a compelling reason to offer it.

But imagine a clean-sheet-of-paper 'basic' car -- one designed to be cheap over
a long period of ownership. Not tiny, perhaps slightly larger than a Jeep.
Boxy Jeep-like shape, for simplicity of assembly. Body-on-frame construction,
so a minor accident won't total the vehicle. Body panels made from recycled plastic,
so they can't rust, and if one is damaged, just replace that panel. Make all components
easily accessible and serviceable.

Offer it in two configurations: four-door sedan and small pickup truck.

This concept flies against contemporary practice in several ways,
so it probably would be of no interest to exisiting car manufacturers.
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