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If Columbia's CSA has 767,589 people in 6 counties
Greenville's CSA has 824,112 people in 10 counties
and Charleston's CSA has 664, 607 people in only 3 counties
What does that tell you? Just saying.
Columbia's MSA has 708,592 in its three most populous counties: Richland, Lexington and Kershaw. Columbia's MSA has six counties and doesn't include Newberry County. Columbia's CSA does include Newberry County.
I disagree, I don't think I am making out anything more than it is, not sure why you would say that. This thread started with someone talking about the largely populated upstate with 1.4m folks, others chimed in with "heavily populated" an other strong adjectives. Some took the opportunity to differentiate Greenville with Cola . I said then as I would today, it is a stretch and gives the wrong impression to just take a big number without looking at the components or what is being asked. With every number, understanding how it is formed and determining if it is usable is the first step. Some equities post great stock prices relative to each other, understanding the ratios etc....is the key as is understanding the area components and drivers.
I know the numbers and how they are calculated but, on a relative basis, it distorts what is reality especially if you are trying to define labor markets, recreation areas, etc.....Retailers look at trade areas and typically look at a 2-5 mile radius as the primary market of a store. For larger stores or projects like Magnolia in Greenville, this circle may be a little larger due to some destination stores like Cabelas. But a CSA, typically no. If you are looking at a 200 person office relo in Greenville, your primary labor market is Greenville and maybe western Spartanburg, not Gaffney or Oconee. Recreation may be more regional depending on the type of event or venue. In that case, I am sure Time Warner Cable Arena is not using CSA but more of the 100 mile radius 7m+ population around Charlotte. So, that is why I see using this number as requiring an asterisk. Comparing one region that basically follows an interstate has a different dynamics than on centered around a large urban core. Anyone looking at a CSA number expecting to see an Oklahoma City size downtown in the upstate will be very disappointed with a downtown that would basically be suburb in cities with CSAs in that range.
As for the Greenville folks, this is straight from the Greenville Chamber's website....... "The region's population was 1,362,073 at the 2010 Census. The Upstate is the fastest growing region in the state, and given its strategic position between Atlanta and Charlotte, future development and growth prospects are bright." It (1m+) has been used for as long as I can remember as has that "we are the fastest growing" statement which I am sure the Charleston folks may have a problem with.
The CSA *is* a statistically defined labor market, so I'm not sure where the charge of distortion is coming in at. It simply measures commuting patterns at a lower threshold than MSA.
The bottom line is that no one statistic--CSA, MSA, urbanized area, county population, DMA, etc.--is the end-all, be-all for anything and I've not seen anyone from Greenville claim such. Rather, retailers, companies, etc. look at a combination of these metrics when making decisions. CSA population plays a role in that. Again, within the narrowly-defined context of what a CSA is, the Upstate's doesn't need an asterisk any more than that of any other multi-nodal CSA.
I don't see anything wrong with the statement from the Chamber's website, except the "fastest-growing" part which typically refers to rates of growth, not raw numbers.
The CSA *is* a statistically defined labor market, so I'm not sure where the charge of distortion is coming in at. It simply measures commuting patterns at a lower threshold than MSA.
The bottom line is that no one statistic--CSA, MSA, urbanized area, county population, DMA, etc.--is the end-all, be-all for anything and I've not seen anyone from Greenville claim such. Rather, retailers, companies, etc. look at a combination of these metrics when making decisions. CSA population plays a role in that. Again, within the narrowly-defined context of what a CSA is, the Upstate's doesn't need an asterisk any more than that of any other multi-nodal CSA.
I don't see anything wrong with the statement from the Chamber's website, except the "fastest-growing" part which typically refers to rates of growth, not raw numbers.
I have not said that other multi-nodal CSA did not require an asterisk, I have only been talking about Greenville. But, yes, I agree, when you are comparing a number between single city metros and multi nodal areas using this statistic, an asterisk is helpful (especially when Greenville's metro v CSA population number increases over 60% vs. a 20% average for other metros), I have been consistent in saying that for the past few pages. In fact, that was the point that started this. If you are using this metric as an indicator of size as implied by the Greenville Chamber's website, it is distorting reality considering the metric's main focus is commuting patterns. In fact, to be consistent, if you are using that number to describe the population of your area, you should base your quality of life metrics on this number as well. I doubt Greenville would want to go there.
Agree, one statistic in no way tells the story of an area....(although I have seen Greenville folks here and elsewhere talk about the large population of the area with CSA as a basis. I grew up there, it is used more than you know). In fact, you will see that number used to describe population and then Greenville County's numbers used to describe QOL metrics, interesting Enron Accounting concept but that is another story.
In the end, I am not sure why this is a big deal. I simply said, correctly, that the CSA number describing Greenville requires more of an explanation on a comparative basis. A lot of Greenville folks did not appreciate that, some used it as a basis to trash Columbia with very very poor logic, some corrected me on interstate mileage and others trashed my use of Charlotte as a comparison for specific purposes. But, as discussed, multi nodal areas like Greenville are different and the CSA is a very limited metric thus, using it to describe an areas size, scope and influence is a stretch at best.
5 million divided by 365 equals 13,698, and they aren't hanging out in Summerville.
If every tourist came and stayed only one day, spread out over 365, that would be accurate. But, most stay a few days or a week, and are mostly in April-September.
You didn't say it, but whoever said Myrtle Beach doesn't "feel bigger" than Greenville in tourist season is insane. In July, walk down Ocean Boulevard from one side to the other (if you can). Feels 5X bigger than Greenville then. And, probably 1,000,000 in that city any given day in the summer.
Knowing it's tourists creating the scene would turn me off. That's just me.
Oh I see. Well, the Myrtle Beach vibe was fun in my teens and 20's.
But the Charleston tourists? Many, if not most, are 30's and 40's, very educated and civil, and from all over the US and world. Its so fun meeting new people here. Have even made a few relationships out of it, meeting women from cities in the South, and making trips back and forth. Its a GREAT scene for young adults. Always someone new to meet. A surprisingly fair amount of people visit here, and then move here for a year or so just to experience it for a while. Usually fresh from college, or in their 30's just looking for a mid-life adventure.
But I agree. The MB tourist vibe isn't for me anymore.
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