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Many people face old age alone and you just have to make it the best that you can. It’s sad when a couple doesn’t get to enjoy retirement together. You adjust to living alone and if you don’t already have a strong friend network you need to join clubs, take up some activities to get yourself around people. I know it’s hard to do even if you’re an extrovert let alone if you are an introvert. But that’s the only solution unless you’re a hermit.
--I've also noticed the decade of your 50s is a sort of make or break decade. This is the decade where the effects of an unhealthy lifestyle really show up big time. It's also the decade where people often get burned out or booted out of good paying employment. People who lived unhealthy lifestyles and/or didn't save often have a really rough time starting in their 50s.
TL;DR: The standard way of doing things in America leaves most people broke and unhealthy (even before they hit old age). For most of us, it really doesn't have to be that way. People who conclude that the normal way of doing things in America s*cks will have an easier time saving money and living a healthy lifestyle than those who just want to fit in with whoever they're around.
Well, sure.
Our Redwood City, California home. $2.8m.
Our Scottsdale, Arizona home. $2.7m. I will miss this one when we sell it.
I'm in my late 60s. I still enjoy most of the same activities I did when younger; traveling, trying new foods, water parks with big slides, making jewelry.
I don't camp any more, prefer hotels these days. I'll probably fly instead of driving 3000 miles.
I would have preferred those years ago, but did what I could afford.
I know people who didn't save their money when young, and now have to keep working into their 70s and 80s. It's pretty grim.
I know others who never developed hobbies, and now have time and money but nothing to do. They focus on the negative aspects of their health, and enjoy complaining to anybody who will listen. I'm not real patient with that; I have plenty of health issues of my own, but don't generally talk about them--because it bores other people, which is rude, and then they start avoiding you.
When I can no longer do the things I enjoy, I don't plan to stick around and be miserable.
Sadly, death with dignity (aka doctor-assisted suicide) is legal in only 10 states, and not in Arizona where I live (it's been before the legislature for ten years, they keep putting it off ).
Once you get sick enough to qualify in the other states, you're probably too sick to travel there. I wouldn't leave my dog in pain for years, but I guess it's okay for people. Let me die like a dog.
I'm in my late 60s. I still enjoy most of the same activities I did when younger; traveling, trying new foods, water parks with big slides, making jewelry.
I don't camp any more, prefer hotels these days. I'll probably fly instead of driving 3000 miles.
I would have preferred those years ago, but did what I could afford.
I know people who didn't save their money when young, and now have to keep working into their 70s and 80s. It's pretty grim.
I know others who never developed hobbies, and now have time and money but nothing to do. They focus on the negative aspects of their health, and enjoy complaining to anybody who will listen. I'm not real patient with that; I have plenty of health issues of my own, but don't generally talk about them--because it bores other people, which is rude, and then they start avoiding you.
When I can no longer do the things I enjoy, I don't plan to stick around and be miserable.
Sadly, death with dignity (aka doctor-assisted suicide) is legal in only 10 states, and not in Arizona where I live (it's been before the legislature for ten years, they keep putting it off ).
Once you get sick enough to qualify in the other states, you're probably too sick to travel there. I wouldn't leave my dog in pain for years, but I guess it's okay for people. Let me die like a dog.
As my partner used to say, "They shoot horses, don't they?" You're right that we treat humans worse than animals. We have legal MAID in New Mexico. It's not "doctor-assisted" since they just prescribe a drug to take on your own, when you're ready.
I had plenty of hobbies, but they don't hold my interest much anymore. I burned out on them. But I still enjoy hiking, biking, and being in nature, and read several books a month. Go to museums and concerts. It's not always "fun" (as in amusement) but they provide the "simple pleasures" in life, that don't cost much.
I came across this quote yesterday from the Scottish philosopher, David Hume: "Reading and sauntering and lounging and dozing, which I call thinking, is my supreme happiness."
I'm 70, and my husband and I have more in savings now than we ever did. When we were young, we were almost poor to the point of fearing that a $10 check might bounce, and the same could be said about our parents when we were kids. Definitely blue collar working class background as a child, and working middle-class after I married. That being said, I never thought about retirement until we were almost 55 because before then, we had too many expenses for us to save anything (except a small amount to the 401k) and we also had two children, so we were much more focused on "now" and paying for "now" than on our retirement. However, we now are living in our vision of retirement paradise, which would seem very modest to most people, but we are very happy in our non-deluxe but custom designed by us home in one of the most beautiful places in the U.S., in our opinion.
So now to finally answer the OP's question, NO, we do not have "fun" as we defined fun when we were young -- river rafting trips, going dancing and going to rock concerts (or even to an occasional trip to amusement park) -- but we do enjoy things such as picking our own fruit, going to wine tastings, going to free local concerts with a picnic supper, and taking an occasional sunset sailing trip (not our own boat, but commercial). So even though I would not exactly describe our retirement life as "fun", the fact that we do enjoy our life now and that we can do whatever we choose to do, whenever we choose to do it, without worrying about the cost* is more than enough to make us happy and content. (*However, our pleasures cost very, very little! If we were into world travel or expensive toys, it would be a different story!)
In short, my advice to younger people (under 40) is to NOT deny yourself "fun" when you are young and to enjoy life as much as you can without going into debt. As long as you don't dig yourself into a financial hole and you have a good job and don't have more children than you can afford, you can start saving for retirement later and still come out fine. We were able to save enough for retirement in just ten years due to Social Security and having quite a bit of equity in our former home before we sold it, which meant that we could pay "cash" for our current home, and we are also both healthy, knock wood (although we have the maximum amount of health insurance we can get "just in case").
Last edited by katharsis; 04-27-2024 at 02:41 PM..
I've also noticed the decade of your 50s is a sort of make or break decade. This is the decade where the effects of an unhealthy lifestyle really show up big time. It's also the decade where people often get burned out or booted out of good paying employment. People who lived unhealthy lifestyles and/or didn't save often have a really rough time starting in their 50s.
It really is. But the flip-side is that aggressive savings and prioritization of career during one's 20s and 30s, often result in a jaded and indifferent feeling of "senioritis" (12th graders in high school, not senior citizens). Then upon reaching one's 50s, it's hard to justify that high salary with one's reduced productivity and professional growth. One becomes vulnerable to layoff. Salary plateaus. Chances for further promotion dwindle, especially if one has reached near-executive level, and lacks the soft skills to truly jump into the executive ranks. The result is semi-involuntary early retirement, where one retires to save face.
As I frequently write, the only substantive difference between unemployment and retirement, is that the retired folk have lots of money.
The alternative is a dissipated and uncoordinated youth. No money gets saved, and instead debt is accumulated. The person arrives at say age 35 with zero net worth. What then? OK, maybe continued lassitude, if one can afford it. But more likely is an epiphany leading to frenzied embrace of work. Often I encounter coworkers around age 50 or 55, who are just white-hot dynamos agog with work-activity. Their story: "When I was in college I had no idea what I wanted to do. Ended up in the wrong major. Dropped out. Traveled. Had McJobs and no money. Worked as a waiter in Milan. A fisherman in Norway. Joined the Peace Corps and did something with water purification in a village in Malawi. That's where I met the girl who became my wife. We returned to the States, I completed my degree in Finance. Now we have two boys, ages 9 and 14. I'm maximizing my Roth and their 529. Hope to have enough to retire by 67. And yeah, I better hustle at this job."
Then I saunter over to the office kitchen, refresh my coffee and return to my office, to write another posting here, or maybe to watch cat videos.
As an investor in the company, I'd fire myself and hire more of the fellow whose autobiography I just recited. Why? He's hungry, and eager. I have senioritis. Small fluctuations in the stock market, affect me more than another year of continued employment. Is that freedom? Maybe. But it's also a lousy attitude, developed from decades of front-loading of "responsibility". Even if still working full-time, one may have effectively retired from the rigors and morals of what makes modern society tick. Freedom is not free.
Of course. You couldn't help but think how much more fun it might be with your partner at your side. I am inspired by my 74-year-old friend Dianne. She lost her husband about 2 or 3 years ago. They would travel together, but with his limitations, he would sit in a cafe all day while she went out to do other things nearby. Right now, she is on a 3-month trip to Italy with 3 lady friends. They are staying in each city for 3 weeks and having the time of their lives. It's completely different than her old travel style, and she's loving it. Life moves on and changes, but you can still have fun.
Location: Was Midvalley Oregon; Now Eastside Seattle area
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At 74 and 77, there isn't that much physical ability and time left.
I took my dream adventure, A near solo trip to Europe in March-April with just 12days preparation. My son said he was going to Venice and other places on Condor/Luth. I looked and found the same flight/day for $125 less than what he paid.
Stayed in a mix of hostels and Best Western+ hotels.
<$7000 including airfare and insurance ($600). 25 days.
Last edited by leastprime; 04-27-2024 at 02:47 PM..
The thread title is a bit vague so let me explain....
When it comes to saving money, the common reason is "so you have will have money when you get older and retire". The argument against this is often "why wait to enjoy my money when I get old? why not enjoy it now?"
I'm a young guy and from a young person's perspective (I can't speak for all young people), but we see people in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, and see people grumbling about health problems, getting surgeries, not able to walk around a lot. It's not very inspiring. It makes me think "if I was able to save 1 million dollars until I reach 60 years old, how will I enjoy it?"
Now, I have seen elderly people walking around and enjoying life and it inspires me. Maybe they spent most of their life surrounding themselves with people who also enjoyed their lives.
But back to the topic.....do you enjoy life when you are "older"? Do you enjoy all the money you've spent years saving? Is it all worth it? I want to avoid being that 60-year-old guy who is jaded and gets grumpy about the idea of traveling somewhere or splurging on something nice.
It really is. But the flip-side is that aggressive savings and prioritization of career during one's 20s and 30s, often result in a jaded and indifferent feeling of "senioritis" (12th graders in high school, not senior citizens). Then upon reaching one's 50s, it's hard to justify that high salary with one's reduced productivity and professional growth. One becomes vulnerable to layoff. Salary plateaus. Chances for further promotion dwindle, especially if one has reached near-executive level, and lacks the soft skills to truly jump into the executive ranks. The result is semi-involuntary early retirement, where one retires to save face.
As I frequently write, the only substantive difference between unemployment and retirement, is that the retired folk have lots of money.
The alternative is a dissipated and uncoordinated youth. No money gets saved, and instead debt is accumulated. The person arrives at say age 35 with zero net worth. What then? OK, maybe continued lassitude, if one can afford it. But more likely is an epiphany leading to frenzied embrace of work. Often I encounter coworkers around age 50 or 55, who are just white-hot dynamos agog with work-activity. Their story: "When I was in college I had no idea what I wanted to do. Ended up in the wrong major. Dropped out. Traveled. Had McJobs and no money. Worked as a waiter in Milan. A fisherman in Norway. Joined the Peace Corps and did something with water purification in a village in Malawi. That's where I met the girl who became my wife. We returned to the States, I completed my degree in Finance. Now we have two boys, ages 9 and 14. I'm maximizing my Roth and their 529. Hope to have enough to retire by 67. And yeah, I better hustle at this job."
Then I saunter over to the office kitchen, refresh my coffee and return to my office, to write another posting here, or maybe to watch cat videos.
As an investor in the company, I'd fire myself and hire more of the fellow whose autobiography I just recited. Why? He's hungry, and eager. I have senioritis. Small fluctuations in the stock market, affect me more than another year of continued employment. Is that freedom? Maybe. But it's also a lousy attitude, developed from decades of front-loading of "responsibility". Even if still working full-time, one may have effectively retired from the rigors and morals of what makes modern society tick. Freedom is not free.
You make a lot of valid points. I have seen several people who can't admit it's time to retire, in several cases because they can't admit their health issues just aren't going to allow it any more. They keep wanting to get back to where they were before their latest health crisis, but never quite get there. A few had the money to retire, a few didn't.
But I also know someone more like you, OhioPeasant, who was in a good financial position, but who didn't have a good sense of purpose. He's about 77 now and hasn't really been happy in years. He never found that sense of purpose, and now he doesn't have the health to do much about it (didn't take care of his health as he could have/should have). If you'd fire yourself from your job, I think your task is to find a sense of purpose. Don't let yourself end up like my friend.
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