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When you are working you are limited by your vacation time. I went to Europe twice and Thailand once while working. We couldn’t take the motorhome too far as we were limited to 2 weeks vacation. Since being retired I have went to Europe an additional 4 times and have spent a month at a time traveling in the motorhome with 4 dogs.
We went to many national parks and many off the beaten path places with no restrictions on when we had to be home. If you like to travel do some while working and some in retirement. The unknown factor about getting older is that you don’t know how your health will be even if you take good care of yourself and no guarantees you will even get old.
Our credit card bills, utility bills (including phone), loans, and food and gas combined are literally equal to the amount of income my wife and I make. $125k would have been nice in the apartment we used to live in. We're both looking for higher paying jobs lol. Easier said than done though.
Then you both need to treat your situation like an emergency. Because it is.
Start with the low hanging fruit. TRACK EVERY PENNY YOU SPEND FOR AT LEAST 3 MONTHS. People who are willing to do this often find that they really didn't know where their money goes. Or they find ways to get at least some of the things they want at a lower price (better at shopping sales, etc.).
Seeing where your money actually goes may not free up 20% of your income for savings/debt paydown, but it almost certainly will make a serious dent.
You may have to take a serious look at your fixed expenses (car payments, house, etc.). This is the classic middle-class trap. They get a half decent income, and instead of staying in the apartment another year or two and saving the difference, they upgrade their cars and housing so that they're on a perpetual treadmill. If you want to make a change, this situation has to p*ss you off. You need to be mad enough to want to do something about it, not just resigned to living on a perpetual treadmill and complaining about it, or telling yourself this is normal or ok, or that you enjoy life this way, or that everyone else is doing it and it's impossible to do otherwise, etc.
Then you need to either tackle the fixed expenses, bring in more money, or a combination of both. Don't expect your menu of choices to be easy or fun here. Because it won't be.
Basically, if you want to get out of the payday-to-payday lifestyle, you'll have to suck it up in one way or another for at least 2 years. Then, at that point, you can slowly, steadily, and thoughtfully upgrade aspects of your lifestyle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
The thing with entrepreneurs is that 95% of all entrepreneurs have two things in common: we're all crazy but we're all super passionate. Some will make revenue and succeed faster than others. All depends on how hard you hustle and how much grit you have. Some people drop out and quit and say "this isn't for me". Others say "quit" is not in my vocabulary. I have no experience in this but I will say that once the business starts to make money, I couldn't imagine how great the feeling is. It's like all the self-doubt and sacrifice was all worth it.
I'm not entrepreneurial, so I can't advise other than to say a few things. 1. Don't quit your day job until the entrepreneurial money has been coming in for a while. 2. Do NOT upgrade your lifestyle when more money comes in. Pay off the cars. Put 6 months' to a year's worth of money in the bank. Maybe even pay extra on the mortgage before you even consider doing any lifestyle upgrades.
TL;DR: One way or another, you have to increase the gap between spending and income. Thinking of it as one thing--THE GAP--helps some people.
Right now, you don't have a gap. And that's a stressful place to be. That stress gets worse over time if you continue as you have been.
Edit: Some people might say it's fine to live life payday to payday as long as it's a conscious choice. But in my observation, people who live this way aren't really choosing things consciously and things typically don't work out that well for them as time goes on. They're usually not happy with the outcome but blame it on external forces instead of their own choices.
Free-R's post (#80) was awesome. The only thing I could add is that you may not need over $3M for retirement when you don't have so much debt and bills (i.e. no car payments, house paid off, etc.). When your expenses go down, the nest egg you need to cover them goes down as well.
Last edited by mysticaltyger; 04-19-2024 at 10:56 AM..
Most of the things I enjoy don't cost huge amounts of money. But I'm able to enjoy them because I'm not spending five days a week working. The time to do things is more important than money, but it seems some amount of money is essential to have the time. My only regret about retiring is not having the resources to have done it sooner.
This is very much how I felt in my 1+ year off I took at age 51. I was really happy to have my time be my own. I just wasn't quite financially ready yet to do it long term.
Then you both need to treat your situation like an emergency. Because it is.
Start with the low hanging fruit. TRACK EVERY PENNY YOU SPEND FOR AT LEAST 3 MONTHS. People who are willing to do this often find that they really didn't know where their money goes. Or they find ways to get at least some of the things they want at a lower price (better at shopping sales, etc.).
Seeing where your money actually goes may not free up 20% of your income for savings/debt paydown, but it almost certainly it will make a serious dent.
You may have to take a serious look at your fixed expenses (car payments, house, etc.). This is the classic middle-class trap. They get a half decent income, and instead of staying in the apartment another year or two and saving the difference, they upgrade their cars and housing so that they're on a perpetual treadmill. If you want to make a change, this situation has to p*ss you off. You need to be mad enough to want to do something about it, not just resigned to living on a perpetual treadmill and complaining about it, or telling yourself this is normal or ok, or that you enjoy life this way, or that everyone else is doing it and it's impossible to do otherwise, etc.
Then you need to either tackle the fixed expenses, bring in more money, or a combination of both. Don't expect your menu of choices to be easy or fun here. Because it won't be.
Basically, if you want to get out of the payday-to-payday lifestyle, you'll have to suck it up in one way or another for at least 2 years. Then, at that point, you can slowly, steadily, and thoughtfully upgrade aspects of your lifestyle.
I'm not entrepreneurial, so I can't advise other than to say a few things. 1. Don't quit your day job until the entrepreneurial money has been coming in for a while. 2. Do NOT upgrade your lifestyle when more money comes in. Pay off the cars. Put 6 months' to a year's worth of money in the bank. Maybe even pay extra on the mortgage before you even consider doing any lifestyle upgrades.
TL;DR: One way or another, you have to increase the gap between spending and income. Thinking of it as one thing--THE GAP--helps some people.
Right now, you don't have a gap. And that's a stressful place to be. That stress gets worse over time if you continue as you have been.
Please safe this as PDF for future use!!!
I have been on CD going back to when the Administrator had his phone number listed. How many similar threads are on file? Decent income, living paycheck to paycheck, fast and furious biz ideas and then? Common sense is now a super power? Dig a hole. Then dig a deeper hole.
You took some time out. We gambled everything at 40 for SO's training of about 250k in a year and did a 180 based on a banker's advise right before he was done and the industry tanked. It was very simple - can you afford to
loose it? The 180 took a year to turn into a financially, professionally and actually fun career for SO. Hobby turned out:>)
He has a side gig which finances the current not inexpensive play dates. Could he turn it into a full time job? Absolutely but the offset investment of time/labor/overhead versus supporting hobby, practicing hobby and retaining full time fun employment makes no sense. To return to OP's numbers - yes you can turn in SO's case $20 material into $100 cash sales. Please remember production and delivery. He has a following and turns potential customers down. We tried to explain that to someone who wants to get into this for actual profit. Blinders and ear plugs:<(
Go big or bust. The miracle children Gates & company were not hotel mama kids waiting to be spoon fed.
Too harsh? My reality. My days of deer hunting/processing to put meat on the table are over but we always had enough to share.
My uncle had a friend in his 80s who passed earlier this year. A few years ago his wife wanted to take a trip to China. The cost: 55k, for an international trip where no treaties were signed, no business agreements were to be made, and as far as I know, no piece of art was created from the memories.
What did they do in China that costed $55,000 for 1-2 weeks?
Did they climb Everest from the other side or something?
What did they do in China that costed $55,000 for 1-2 weeks?
Did they climb Everest from the other side or something?
Sometimes, people make up this kind of stuff too.
I have no idea as I don't do that type of traveling. I talk to my uncle about stocks all the time, and it's just info he relayed about what his friend was telling him. I don't think they were otherwise frequent travelers at 80, so it's unlikely it was them setting it up DIY style. It was probably a full tour guide type of thing at the fanciest, popular places. Or his wife wanted to or did buy a bunch of stuff on the trip and that's the all-in price of the vacation. He made money on Apple stock, so he could afford it. He wasn't living paycheck to paycheck while..."having fun." To compliment that, I don't remember which thread it was in, but someone posted on C-D that they spent 20k going to Europe, so 55k to China may not be too much of a stretch.
We still have many friends and a strong social network
At almost 80, we still take several 1-2 month road trips a year. We spend 6 weeks in FL (mainly using Hilton and Marriott points that I built up over 30 years of traveling for work.
We still go west to visit National Parks and Monuments
We subscribe to the Cincinnati Playhouse in the Park and the Broadway Series, as well as concerts that we want to see.
When we first met our financial advisor and built our financial plan way before we both retired at 70, we based everything on our lifestyle then and wanted for the future.
Yes we have our medical issues, as most people our age do, but as long as we dont get worse we will continue to have fun. We will do exactly what we are doing until we can't!
Our children know that if there is money left over when we die, it's theirs. If not, we gave them a great education
Yes, we still have all kinds of fun, some expensive, some cheap, some free - some of it is fun for grown adults, not kids, so you may not be able to recognize it.
We are fortunate to have good health and to have pretty much full physical and mental capability. Your assumption that at 60 one is decrepit with one foot in the grave and the other on the edge is not characteristic of the 60-somethings, 70-somethings, and most of the 80-somethings we know.
Of course if you insist on eating and drinking and smoking everything that comes your way while sitting on your butt and never ever ever getting any exercise, well, your 60s, 70s, or 80s may be a great deal different than most of our friends'. But that's your choice. If you make the obesity, addiction, inactivity choice, you have only yourself to blame.
The thread title is a bit vague so let me explain....
When it comes to saving money, the common reason is "so you have will have money when you get older and retire". The argument against this is often "why wait to enjoy my money when I get old? why not enjoy it now?"
I'm a young guy and from a young person's perspective (I can't speak for all young people), but we see people in their 60s, 70s, and 80s, and see people grumbling about health problems, getting surgeries, not able to walk around a lot. It's not very inspiring. It makes me think "if I was able to save 1 million dollars until I reach 60 years old, how will I enjoy it?"
Now, I have seen elderly people walking around and enjoying life and it inspires me. Maybe they spent most of their life surrounding themselves with people who also enjoyed their lives.
But back to the topic.....do you enjoy life when you are "older"? Do you enjoy all the money you've spent years saving? Is it all worth it? I want to avoid being that 60-year-old guy who is jaded and gets grumpy about the idea of traveling somewhere or splurging on something nice.
I learned day 1 job 1 post college graduation to save first and did so my 38 yr working career. I had fun, I don’t find spending a lot of money fun but have fun many ways. Learn fun from spending is short lived. Living well all your life is priceless.
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