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I think it's more about understanding than forgiveness. People behaving badly are usually just someone struggling mentally. Much of it can be traced to trauma they experienced, didn't deal with, then they go around spreading toxicity. It's kind of hard to hold a grudge against someone when you look at them and think "What a trainwreck". Mostly I just feel gratitude I don't have their problems. I did dial back on two friends who got involved in that us vs them political stuff and then tried to scapegoat me. If a person is so messed up that they need a scapegoat I can't see them coming around anytime soon.
Forgiveness is often tied to emotions. If we are upset about what another person did, giving them a chance back into our life as long as boundaries are respected is seen as forgiveness. But what if we didn't get upset? What if we just waited until they respected our boundaries in order to participate in our lives the way they want? Would it be evidence of forgiveness or of understanding once they respect our boundaries?
I think it's more about understanding than forgiveness. People behaving badly are usually just someone struggling mentally. Much of it can be traced to trauma they experienced, didn't deal with, then they go around spreading toxicity. It's kind of hard to hold a grudge against someone when you look at them and think "What a trainwreck". Mostly I just feel gratitude I don't have their problems. I did dial back on two friends who got involved in that us vs them political stuff and then tried to scapegoat me. If a person is so messed up that they need a scapegoat I can't see them coming around anytime soon.
It is a mystery why even normally good people sometimes behave badly, lacking empathy, even common decency. I am not a therapist and i don’t have the means to assess why they do what they do. Sometimes even they may not know.
I believe truth and reconciliation is a better approach than to forgive and forget. I do not consider it my responsibility to forgive someone who hurt me. It has no meaning for me unless I wish to still have them in my life, have a relationship with me.
If I acted badly it is my responsibility to first, acknowledge it happened, then offer a sincere apology and, third, vow to never act that way again and stick to it. We may fail but then our intention would still be in good faith and we can recover. I expect no less from the person who hurt me.
Forgiveness is often tied to emotions. If we are upset about what another person did, giving them a chance back into our life as long as boundaries are respected is seen as forgiveness. But what if we didn't get upset? What if we just waited until they respected our boundaries in order to participate in our lives the way they want? Would it be evidence of forgiveness or of understanding once they respect our boundaries?
I would call that understanding. Understanding that this person will violate you if given the chance, probably unintentionally even. Then protecting yourself instead of expecting the other person to get it.
It is a mystery why even normally good people sometimes behave badly, lacking empathy, even common decency. I am not a therapist and i don’t have the means to assess why they do what they do. Sometimes even they may not know.
I believe truth and reconciliation is a better approach than to forgive and forget. I do not consider it my responsibility to forgive someone who hurt me. It has no meaning for me unless I wish to still have them in my life, have a relationship with me.
If I acted badly it is my responsibility to first, acknowledge it happened, then offer a sincere apology and, third, vow to never act that way again and stick to it. We may fail but then our intention would still be in good faith and we can recover. I expect no less from the person who hurt me.
I don't think human behavior is all that mysterious. I do think my mind cannot tell the difference between my errors or those of another on an experiential level. Early in recovery I realized I had to learn to forgive others if I wanted to know how to forgive myself. Whatever I dished out was certainly coming back to me. I have hit that balance a few times and it was bliss. I am attempting to figure out a way to stay there.
Since this thread was started by NS while still a Christian I think that's what all the non judgement is about. It is to protect the person reading it and not whoever is in their life acting the fool. Lots of people are the fool in their own lives. I am happy to only occasionally having to ignore their drama.
What would make you cut someone out of your life? It's obvious from reading all these threads that some things/sins bother some people more than others.
In my case, it's an abusive parent. I struggled with trying to have a relationship with him in spite of what he had done not just to me but everyone around him. I felt that I had to be the bigger person and forgive, because one of the Ten Commandments is to honor your mother and father.
After being completely humiliated in public (in a Christian bookstore, no less) because he once again was arguing with someone, the salesperson, about how dare they push anything other than the King James Version of the Bible on anyone (it's a bookstore, for crying out loud) - I experienced what I like to call an Alfred Hitchcock moment. You know, like scenes from his movies where a defining moment is defined even further by the zoom of the camera lense....it all came crashing in at me.
All the things he had ever done and swore that he didn't, all the things he was still doing and never once admitting to having done anything wrong or uttering the words I'm sorry or please forgive me....it was like I was in a vacuum in the middle of that store, frozen with my mouth dropped open. On the way back I confronted him and I remember two things that he said. One, he said that someone had to set that woman straight because she was wrong, and the other was that the only reason I was any kind of decent human being was because of him. My response? No, Dad, I am a decent human being IN SPITE of you. I walked away and he was still blabbing as I closed the garage door. That was 6 years ago.
What would force you to completely remove someone from your life? Is there someone you need to remove right now or have you had to do this already? I got past the honor your parents thing with the help of my mother. God says to honor, He doesn't say you have to take abuse. I honor him by staying away from him. No more harsh words, anger, rage, hitting, or me feeling inadequate in every way. I have a relationship with my God in spite of the way he twisted religion and the Bible. But I had to fall hard before I searched for the truth for myself. Don't make my same mistakes....life is never good without Christ! What say you?
I've cut people out of my life rarely.
But when I have it's always people who only take and never give back.
You know the type- people who leave you to do all the work and all the organizing and take half the credit, but then never do anything in return.
Eventually you realise these people are the takers in life and I can't be doing with them. Parting ways is easy. You just stop getting in touch.
I spend a lot of time in recovery groups. On the exJW site there is much discussion on fixing our damages. It's no mystery if you subject a child to certain situations what will happen and how that child will be impacted. It was pointed out to me that the term "codependent" is the traits someone subjected to what I was would take on. So I looked it up and there I was. I am aware of Barnum so I contrasted those traits against other people and nope, these traits listed were not Barnum statements. It's no mystery to me (anymore) why someone would choose me to scapegoat. It's no mystery to me why they would scapegoat. They were telling me what their greatest fear of being found out was.
I spend a lot of time in recovery groups. On the exJW site there is much discussion on fixing our damages. It's no mystery if you subject a child to certain situations what will happen and how that child will be impacted. It was pointed out to me that the term "codependent" is the traits someone subjected to what I was would take on. So I looked it up and there I was. I am aware of Barnum so I contrasted those traits against other people and nope, these traits listed were not Barnum statements. It's no mystery to me (anymore) why someone would choose me to scapegoat. It's no mystery to me why they would scapegoat. They were telling me what their greatest fear of being found out was.
"Cutting someone out of your life" (aka: drawing some boundaries) has nothing to do with something being, or not being, "unforgiveable". That's an entirely separate issue. In fact you can absolutely forgive someone and not hold anything against the and still not trust them or give them unfettered access to you or be vulnerable to them.
Nothing is unforgiveable but a lot of things represent such a betrayal of trust that it can be very time consuming, if not impossible, to rebuild that trust / win it bak. Distrust is not equal to unforgiveness and forgiveness is not equal to trust.
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I honor him by staying away from him. No more harsh words, anger, rage, hitting, or me feeling inadequate in every way.
I have a relationship with my God in spite of the way he twisted religion and the Bible. But I had to fall hard before I searched for the truth for myself. Don't make my same mistakes....life is never good without Christ! What say you?
