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Good point. Science does not have the means to measure or analyze the God-mind.
No one would.
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Originally Posted by cb2008
Many scientists are also religious, so there is no problem.
That is why they compartmentalize the two, or argue a god behind the curtain that is our reality, precisely because there is often a problem between belief and what the evidence says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
Some scientists are not and THEY may have a conflict-or not. It is a problem only if one sees it as such.
Some interesting comments posted in this thread since I started it, and I'm tempted to address each and every one, but mostly my overall or most significant impression after reading each one is the diverse reaction and/or perspective that is well represented by all the comments. From flat out "no problem with Religion and Science" to how the two are incompatible, and a fair amount of comment somewhere in between those two extreme ends of the perspective scale.
The problem I had more in mind when I started this thread is the one for so many religious naturalists long before science was any kind of thing like it is today. For these poor curious people, it had to be somewhat difficult to follow what the evidence seemed to be telling them contrary to what their religious upbringing and beliefs otherwise dictated. In particular to put into question anything written in the Bible. Which of course in the earlier going was considered the ultimate word with respect to explaining how everything came to be. The ultimate word in the western sphere of the globe anyway. Darwin's world.
This is more the problem or maybe challenge I have read a good deal about over the years, and now again in this book I am reading about where Charles Darwin traveled and what he did. What he began to theorize contrary to what theologians would take great exception to at the time. Contrary to "what is written" in the Bible. The challenge or problem of dealing with the backlash from religious quarters at the time and long afterward is part of what I had in mind as well. In some cases a problem still to this day. Though fortunately not nearly as profound or stifling of efforts to advance our knowledge of the natural world and our place in the cosmos like back in Darwin's day.
there is no problem.
religion and science are compatible and complementary.
if someone has a problem with that, then it is due to their own mindset.
I think there is even a problem of sorts when thinking of this subject even given your perspective (as best I can understand it), but to suggest there is no problem no matter one's perspective is a rather limited perspective all considered either way. Anyone who still thinks "there is no problem" after reading all the comments posted in this thread either can't consider other than their own perspective (AKA confirmation bias), or they didn't bother to read all the other comments posted in this thread that well explain otherwise.
I don't know if it happens to be the books I tend to read or what, but so often I read things that remind me of the exchanges that go on in this forum daily. More specifically having to do with the relationship between religion and science. For example, I just read the following yesterday...
"And the second, the Age of Enlightenment allowed the curious to freely inquire about what the rocks and sediments had to say about how the modern landscape formed... and to question the Biblical version of events."
"Charles nonetheless saw an opportunity to indulge his curiosity for the natural world and a comfortable life in this role. Many clergymen of the day were also naturalists or hobby geologists, following their scientific curiosity as a means to understand God's handiwork."
When reading the above, what comes to mind for a religious person? What comes to mind for an atheist?
I know what more often than not comes to my mind. Yours?
PS: Can you guess who this "Charles" might be?
When I was a kid I remember playground conversations (5th graders) about science versus religion and back then I believed and spoke out that "Science is proof of god", I beleive that is a Jesuit stance on the study of science. I am no longer a believer in any religion, though I don't doubt that we are all more than the sum of our physical parts and part of something bigger than we think of ourselves in human bodies on planet earth. Science is a tool to learn how the universe works and in using it we are still infants with biased expectations and the ability to ignore what we don't want to accept.
I do agree there is a deep-seated human desire to believe in religion.
And that is not likely to go away anytime soon.
Some people will always believe.
It is not a deep seated human desire to believe in religion, it is rather, a deep seated human desire to be told how to think, coupled with a minority with a deep seated desire to tell people what to think.
Can you please point to where exactly you picked up this quote from the Pew research information you offer up here? The read is rather lengthy, and I tried to find the quote after scanning over all of it, but I couldn't find what you have in quotes here.
What I DID find as a lot of very interesting information about all the different beliefs people have and the demographics related to those beliefs which suggest much about what people believe has a good deal to do with "where they come from." Politically, regionally, religious wise.
What should we conclude from all this information? I certainly don't think it helps us understand what the actual truth of these matters may be, and I'm not sure how much stock we should put into what this sort of research tells us what atheists think or believe generally speaking.
Do this to see what I mean. Read each headline in bold as Pew takes you through what their research says about what all these different categories of people believe. Read each headline in bold and compare to what you believe. Does most of it reflect what you believe? Are your beliefs in line with the majority of other people?
All this information really tells us is what we all already know. People all over the world believe all kinds of things for all kinds of different reasons, but they all surely can't be right about what they believe, so where does this leave us?
"To each his own" I suppose, but for me it's not about what I WANT to believe. It's about what the facts, evidence and "clues" tell us we SHOULD believe. Just as the early naturalists felt was the best way to arrive at the truth of these matters. Wherever that truth may lead...
Last edited by LearnMe; 04-17-2024 at 08:10 AM..
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