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Old 04-02-2024, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
328 posts, read 262,183 times
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Souls....... It may sound crazy, but this is what my research has led me to.

I've studied cases of 4268 individuals that were clinically dead and brought back to life.

2326 were male and 1942 were female.

Out of the 4268 individuals, only 1790 had reported to have had an NDE.


Of the 1790 individuals, 1071 were individuals under the age of 18. 513 were individuals between the ages of 19 and 30 and the remaining 206 were individuals over the age of 30.

My findings are a lot more extensive, but this is the jist of it. Just made it simple so I don't want people getting bored reading all of what I have researched.
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Old 04-02-2024, 03:27 PM
 
22,143 posts, read 19,198,797 times
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these items immediately come to mind for me:

what is the determining factor for you, in whether "someone has a soul" or not
having an NDE is not the same as having a soul. being clinically dead is not the same thing as having a soul. being brought back to life is not the same thing as having a soul.

humans are humans. we are all alike in a whole lot of ways. having a soul is one of them.
or if someone does not believe in souls, then they would believe no one has a soul.


but to say some have a soul and some do not, does not for me make sense. i feel like something is missing hence the question for OP, what criteria are you using to claim some people do not have a soul while some do have a soul
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Old 04-02-2024, 03:37 PM
 
Location: NSW
3,797 posts, read 2,992,667 times
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The likes of Lazarus did in fact die, but had nothing to report about his time on the other side.
At least it was not documented in the Bible.
On NDEs, and I’ve watched tons of YouTube videos on them, they all vary but with a common theme.
Usually it was humbling and profound enough that the affected person then became a Christian.
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Old 04-02-2024, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,956 posts, read 13,450,937 times
Reputation: 9910
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue777 View Post
Souls....... It may sound crazy, but this is what my research has led me to.

I've studied cases of 4268 individuals that were clinically dead and brought back to life.

2326 were male and 1942 were female.

Out of the 4268 individuals, only 1790 had reported to have had an NDE.


Of the 1790 individuals, 1071 were individuals under the age of 18. 513 were individuals between the ages of 19 and 30 and the remaining 206 were individuals over the age of 30.

My findings are a lot more extensive, but this is the jist of it. Just made it simple so I don't want people getting bored reading all of what I have researched.
The N in NDE means NEAR. These are NEAR death experiences. We are not able to bring people back to life after they are dead. We can only keep their biological machinery going to an extent, which keeps their brain going. Anyone who truly dies does not come back to tell of it.

When it comes to souls, no one has properly defined them or proven that anyone has them or even been clear on the difference between souls and spirits. Still, I'm curious ... what do these figures have to do with whether or not people have souls?

You seem disappointed that "only" 42% or so of these cases had an NDE. Are you positing that this is best explained by the other 58% not having souls? This seems the very definition of motivated reasoning. It's also contrary to standard Christian dogma ... this is a religion that wants people to go to hell or heaven but not to be pod people who go nowhere.
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Old 04-02-2024, 07:16 PM
 
58 posts, read 8,581 times
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I have looked at a few studies and watched a Ted Talk by an emergency physician who collected data on it.He question anyone he though may of had a NDE not all had them and he collected a lot of data.He found many similarities and that it would match each persons religion but not always. Basically he said in all of them you may or may not have a out of body experience looking down on yourself then you would proceed down a tunnel and when you got to the end a possible life review and then you would be met by family members or in many a Being of light who radiates love. Your told its not your time and sent back. If you cross that line your dead and not coming back. There are actually many studies on this and they are continuing to collect data. Those doing the research such as this Doctor and he is a Neurosurgeon believe it to be true.His own profession denies it but he has changed his mind.

Last edited by Paul888; 04-02-2024 at 07:29 PM..
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Old 04-02-2024, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,956 posts, read 13,450,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul888 View Post
I have looked at a few studies and watched a Ted Talk by an emergency physician who collected data on it.
He found many similarities and that it would match each persons religion but not always. Basically he said in all of them you may or may not have a out of body experience looking down on yourself then you would proceed down a tunnel and when you got to the end a possible life review and then you would be met by family members or in many a Being of light who radiates love. Your told its not your time and sent back. If you cross that line your dead and not coming back. There are actually many studies on this and they are continuing to collect data. Those doing the research such as this Doctor and he is a Neurosurgeon believe it to be true.His own profession denies it but he has changed his mind.
That he is a neurosurgeon is irrelevant -- neurosurgeons are not experts on the afterlife so that would constitute an appeal to authority fallacy. In fact I would suggest that no one is an expert on the afterlife except dead people, and they ain't talkin'.

Yes a lot of research has been done and it has amounted to a lot of nothing. The biggest research study was done for many years in the UK and what they found was that it's very nearly impossible to gather actual evidence on NDEs. You cannot control for all the variables over time. For example, they tried putting signs on top of cabinets or fixtures where only someone hovering over their body during an OBE could see them. The idea being, to question them after the fact about the content. But the problem there is that as the OP admitted, a majority of people do not have NDEs at all, not all involve OBEs in situ, not everyone is willing to participate in a study and share their experiences, and people tend not to have NDEs at times and in places convenient for researching them. You can set up the aforementioned experiment but over many years collect data on surprisingly few alleged NDEs, and that no one sees the signs is not conclusive evidence against, much less for, NDEs. And by then it's increasingly likely that such "planted" signs become an open secret ... the janitors or maintenance people probably know about them, etc.

Then there's the problem that you can't hook up people to, say, an EEG machine, that's time-consuming and invasive and gets in the way of life-saving activities. There is just one known case that I'm aware of, where a guy was on an EEG for some unrelated reason when he suddenly "coded". And ... the result was not conclusive.

Basically the problem with TRULY and SCIENTIFICALLY studying NDEs is that you're studying anecdotal experiences, and so you can only measure them indirectly and it's super easy to get it wrong. And super expensive to even try.

Finally, now that NDEs have been popularized and written about for decades, the well is poisoned basically -- many people know what NDEs are "supposed" to be like and so are more likely to interpret whatever weird state of consciousness they get into to be consistent with those expectations. The inevitable minority of attention-seekers can even claim to have one when they didn't, and who is going to hold them accountable? It's an unverifiable claim.

So people "researching" NDEs are virtually never doing research, they are listening to anecdotes, usually 2nd or 3rd hand campfire stories, in less than objective ways and looking for patterns. And humans are very good at seeing patterns even where they are questionable and sometimes even nonexistent. Our brains are less analagous to computers than to eager pattern-matching engines optimized in ways that aren't conducive to objectivity but rather to survival advantages (if a bush wiggles, it's a predator; run and ask questions later).
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Old 04-02-2024, 07:57 PM
 
58 posts, read 8,581 times
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Well your entitled to your opinion and thats all it is.Better than think all you are is intelligent meat that takes a lot of faith.
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Old 04-02-2024, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,956 posts, read 13,450,937 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul888 View Post
Well your entitled to your opinion and thats all it is.Better than think all you are is intelligent meat that takes a lot of faith.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts. NDEs aren't amenable to actual research, assuming one understands what research actually involves. They are not quite as unexaminable as religious truth claims, but they are, for practical purposes, not much better.

That's not a knock on NDEs BTW. People clearly have these experiences, I'm not saying they are 100% false claims; I'm just saying that people tend to read into them what they want or need to. And, not all of them validate a Christian worldview, or even a sane persons's worldview. They are just experiences. So be careful what you ask for. You might meet Ganesh or Krishna at the end of that tunnel. Some people claim to have met Satan; a minority of NDEs are the proverbial "bad trip" [shrug]. But no one makes money writing books about THOSE.
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Old 04-02-2024, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,762 posts, read 24,261,465 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts. NDEs aren't amenable to actual research, assuming one understands what research actually involves. They are not quite as unexaminable as religious truth claims, but they are, for practical purposes, not much better.

That's not a knock on NDEs BTW. People clearly have these experiences, I'm not saying they are 100% false claims; I'm just saying that people tend to read into them what they want or need to. And, not all of them validate a Christian worldview, or even a sane persons's worldview. They are just experiences. So be careful what you ask for. You might meet Ganesh or Krishna at the end of that tunnel. Some people claim to have met Satan; a minority of NDEs are the proverbial "bad trip" [shrug]. But no one makes money writing books about THOSE.
Excellent post.
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Old 04-03-2024, 02:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,521 posts, read 37,121,123 times
Reputation: 13998
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue777 View Post
Souls....... It may sound crazy, but this is what my research has led me to.

I've studied cases of 4268 individuals that were clinically dead and brought back to life.

2326 were male and 1942 were female.

Out of the 4268 individuals, only 1790 had reported to have had an NDE.


Of the 1790 individuals, 1071 were individuals under the age of 18. 513 were individuals between the ages of 19 and 30 and the remaining 206 were individuals over the age of 30.

My findings are a lot more extensive, but this is the jist of it. Just made it simple so I don't want people getting bored reading all of what I have researched.
During an NDE many Indians report meeting the Hindu king of the dead, Yamraj, while Americans often claim to have met Jesus. Children typically describe encountering friends and teachers "in the light".
https://www.sciencealert.com/experts...th-experiences

These are called hallucinations, simple as that.
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