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Death isn't a question of conservation of energy. It is a question of a particular configuration of energy and matter (a living person) becoming dead, which means that organization unravels and breaks back down into its constituent elements. Saying a person is immortal due to the conservation of energy is like saying a car that's totaled in an accident still has exactly the same utility and value and you should not file an insurance claim because it's perfectly drivable. After all, all the parts still exist. They may be shattered across a large area around the crash site, but it's still your car!
Not only is death not a question of conservation of energy, once again we have a religionist using science to defend their religion when they don't really believe in science.
Not only is death not a question of conservation of energy, once again we have a religionist using science to defend their religion when they don't really believe in science.
Many Nobel prize winning scientists are religious.
What planet do you live on? ROXs 42 Bb?
Many Nobel prize winning scientists are religious.
What planet do you live on? ROXs 42 Bb?
Thank you for the bulletin. But as a person with two degrees in geology I've worked with many a scientist who believes in god, and have discussed such in this forum on several occasions. But now let me give you a bulletin -- the poster in question is not a Nobel prize winning scientist.
Death isn't a question of conservation of energy. It is a question of a particular configuration of energy and matter (a living person) becoming dead, which means that organization unravels and breaks back down into its constituent elements. Saying a person is immortal due to the conservation of energy is like saying a car that's totaled in an accident still has exactly the same utility and value and you should not file an insurance claim because it's perfectly drivable. After all, all the parts still exist. They may be shattered across a large area around the crash site, but it's still your car!
But the living "person" is NOT the physical body, it is the "fruit" produced by the physical "plant." When the "plant" dies the "fruit" it has produced does not die with it. It is in a different energy form. Our actual energy form exists at the level of quanta and it is what we are interacting with on this forum, NOT the physical body that produces it.
The Lake of Fire was created for those who rebel against Yahweh. There was a time where none of us existed. Yet when we were created, from that point we will always exist. The parts of us, our soul and spirit, will always be, from my understanding. Even in our scientific laws, we know through conservation of energy that matter cannot be destroyed. How much more the spirit! So those who of their choice rebel and forsake Yahweh, a place was created to house them. The fire was added as the form of punishment for sin.
If energy and matter can not be created or destroyed, how did a god create something out of nothing?
And considering your god will allegedly torture people for eternity for the slightest of sins, should you 1) not be so arrogant by telling us what your god will do, and 2) imply that because of your belief, you will not end in the fire?
Thank you for the bulletin. But as a person with two degrees in geology I've worked with many a scientist who believes in god, and have discussed such in this forum on several occasions. But now let me give you a bulletin -- the poster in question is not a Nobel prize winning scientist.
Please read your own words - very slowly this time.
“religionist using science to defend their religion when they don't really believe in science”
If religionists don’t believe in science then how do they excel in scientific research and academia?
Many Nobel prize winning scientists are religious.
What planet do you live on? ROXs 42 Bb?
Many Nobel prize winning scientists are religious, therefore there can be NO religionists using science to defend their religion when they don't really believe in science?
And once again the question for any theist, if there are many Nobel prize winning scientists who are religious, why do they have different beliefs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Please read your own words - very slowly this time.
“religionist using science to defend their religion when they don't really believe in science”
If religionists don’t believe in science then how do they excel in scientific research and academia?
You read his words carefully, very slowly.
“A religionist using science to defend their religion when they don't really believe in science”.
.... and biblical fire is Not burning after death.
Jesus and the OT both teach 'sleep' (Not pain) in death - John 11:11-14; Psalm 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5
Just as there was No post-mortem penalty for Adam, No double jeopardy, there is none for anyone else.
The total complete asking price tag for sin is: death. Not death plus anything else - Romans 6:23,7
So, when righteous dead Jesus was in biblical hell he was asleep in the grave - Acts 2:27
KJV wrongly translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were: destroyed.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for: destruction, destruction of the wicked.
Please see - Psalms 37:38; 92:7; 104:35; 145:20
Believers fall asleep, this is true. This is the language we use because we know death will not hold us. In fact after Jesus' resurrection, we know those who have died before hand are now in His presence in Heaven.
The ultimate truth is, there is more to life and death than just existence and non-existence. It has to do with being in the presence of Yahweh. Do we have fellowship with Him, the source of all life, or are we separated from Him? To be separated is death. At the end of the age, everyone will be resurrected in terms of their bodies. Yet the wicked dead won't be given glorified bodies. They will be resurrected to face the final judgment, which is the second death. If death only meant non-existence, then the first death should have taken them out. Now if life only meant existence, Adam had that before the fall. If Adam and Eve never disobeyed God, they wouldn't have been entitled for death. And yet, God planted a tree in the Garden of Eden called the Tree of Life. So Adam and Eve could have eaten from this tree, to gain more of what they already had? So these words, life and death, they mean more than simple existence and non-existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Death isn't a question of conservation of energy. It is a question of a particular configuration of energy and matter (a living person) becoming dead, which means that organization unravels and breaks back down into its constituent elements. Saying a person is immortal due to the conservation of energy is like saying a car that's totaled in an accident still has exactly the same utility and value and you should not file an insurance claim because it's perfectly drivable. After all, all the parts still exist. They may be shattered across a large area around the crash site, but it's still your car!
God is able to reassemble our bodies. He's the ultimatle technician. Of course there is more to us than just our bodies. There's the subject of our consciousness. All in all, I'm just pointing out the eternal quality of the matter that makes up our bodies. If it is that way for what we can detect, how much more what we would call the "spirit".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
If energy and matter can not be created or destroyed, how did a god create something out of nothing?
And considering your god will allegedly torture people for eternity for the slightest of sins, should you 1) not be so arrogant by telling us what your god will do, and 2) imply that because of your belief, you will not end in the fire?
We assume matter cannot be created because we observe it not being destroyed. It doesn't mean it wasn't created. I believe God made it this way, showing an eternal quality to nature itself. As to your other questions, I speak to what Yahweh has done for us. I don't speak of my own actions and desires. Of course you can read the texts for yourself as well.
Yet I do find it interesting how no matter how one feels about Hell, nobody, and I mean nobody has a problem with Satan going there for all eternity. That is him being cast into the Lake of Fire, where the smoke of his torment will rise forever and ever. I've yet to see one person ever have a problem with that. (Satan is the "Accuser". Haha, nobody likes a snitch! ) However, when it comes to people, we have a problem accepting this fate. Not saying that we shouldn't, it is a horrible fate if true. I'm just saying nobody has a problem with the devil being there, and it is interesting for me.
With that said, God Himself gets no pleasure of seeing the wicked perish. He wants all men to turn to Him and choose Him. So God is not sadistic. He is righteous and must judge crimes. Yet above that, He is merciful and gracious. He wants everyone to choose His grace. Not that I'm preaching to everyone, but this is a discussion dealing with Hell. From my reading of Scripture, Hell will ultimately be the Lake of Fire.
Please read your own words - very slowly this time.
“religionist using science to defend their religion when they don't really believe in science”
If religionists don’t believe in science then how do they excel in scientific research and academia?
1. Because they compartmentalize their lives.
2. Because they don't believe in a literal translation of the bible.
3. Because they may believe more in a deistic god.
4. Because of other beliefs they may hold that are up to the individual.
We terrestrial beings have a sense of right and wrong, good and bad.
When something is wrong or bad it must be corrected. And even punished.
If someone dies owing me a $1000, we believe there is an outstanding debt that somehow must be paid. The debt is eternally recorded.
These are earthly, terrestrial views.
How all of this works itself out on the spiritual plane, I have no idea.
I do believe, there exists a concept of perfect justice. I believe perfect Love exists. I suspect the absence of these could begin to describe an unpleasantness.
Where and how these ideas present themselves may be the " place " we are talking about. But I don't think a spiritual " place " can be adequately described.
I
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) However, when it comes to people, we have a problem accepting this fate. Not saying that we shouldn't, it is a horrible fate if true. I'm just saying nobody has a problem with the devil being there, and it is interesting for me.
