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I can stop you right there. That's a very weird question to ask an atheist. 'Do I genuinely believe we just popped into existence? '
No I believe it took us about 13.8 billion years to evolve. That includes about 9 billion years until the earth formed from accretion about 4.5 billion years ago. Then prokarytes appeared about 4 billion years ago, cyanobacteria about 3 billion years ago, large multicelluar life about 1.5 billion years ago, human ancestors about 6 million years ago and homosapiens about 2 - 300,000 years ago. I'm rounding with this lot but you get the idea.
I thought it was Christians who believed we just 'popped into existence'? Are you sure you directed the question to the right people?
Also these are a lot of questions for one thread. How about dividing it into separate threads?
Another good effort to address more than a few curious questions, but the list of questions for both Christians and atheists is telling in and of itself.
Yes, wisdom is wisdom regardless of the source. And therefore, you seek out and accept wisdom from Buddhism, Islam, Jainism, Hinduism, Indigenous religions all over the globe, and so forth? I think not.
People seek out what they have need of. The Catholic Faith is deep and rich enough to provide me with more than enough of what I'm seeking for multiple lifetimes. If I felt that Catholicism were lacking, then I might be inclined to look elsewhere for different perspectives; but I have not found that to be the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi
As far as the priests go, the catholic church has repeatedly tried to hide the scandal. The Catholic Church and its hierarchy.
This I have never denied. Many Catholics, including those at the highest levels, have acted and continue to act in a manner completely contrary to the Catholic Faith.
The Catholic Faith is an assent to divinely revealed Truths. It's not a cult of any particular individual (excepting the Divine Person, Jesus Christ Himself) or the Church hierarchy.
True, but I've often thought that the "holy land" was terribly mis-described as such.
It's okay to call the country around Jerusalem the "holy land", because it's the land on which God Himself walked. It is therefore unique, or "set apart"; which is what "holy" really means.
People seek out what they have need of. The Catholic Faith is deep and rich enough to provide me with more than enough of what I'm seeking for multiple lifetimes. If I felt that Catholicism were lacking, then I might be inclined to look elsewhere for different perspectives; but I have not found that to be the case.
This I have never denied. Many Catholics, including those at the highest levels, have acted and continue to act in a manner completely contrary to the Catholic Faith.
The Catholic Faith is an assent to divinely revealed Truths. It's not a cult of any particular individual (excepting the Divine Person, Jesus Christ Himself) or the Church hierarchy.
Funny that you mentioned "cult". I certainly didn't. But you still used the world "wholly" in regard to the catholic church. Perhaps you meant hole-ly.
I also believe there are forces out there that we do not understand.
There was actually a video on YouTube where a Catholic asked a priest about a conversation the priest had with an atheist. The atheist asked "what if you are wrong and God is not real?". The priest smiled and said "then I am wrong. I have nothing to lose. but what if you are wrong?". Basically, nobody loses anything if God is not real but if God indeed is real, there are many people in our universe who are <<bleep>> lol.
Our history as a race is a long story about dealing with "forces out there that we do not understand," but go back to the beginning. Back to when we didn't understand earthquakes, thunder or lightening and volcanoes. The stars, the sun or the moon. It becomes quite clear from the lessons learned from this history that the unknown is really nothing more than what we don't know, yet. We have learned, or should have learned, that the manner in which we address those forces unknown over time have provided the "light" where before there was the darkness of our ignorance. That's all. A history and/or process that very much continues today and will no doubt continue long after we're gone.
About the Catholic and the atheist too. Interesting how a different perspective can lead us to different conclusions. Is the truth about what we have to gain or lose? Is there no loss to believe in something that is not true? I've been a Catholic and now I am an atheist. I didn't lose too much time believing what I did when I was a Catholic who believed in God, but for many decades now I am glad I have not lost time doing what I would otherwise be doing if I was still a Catholic and not an atheist.
I had a very religious friend who once asked me why I didn't believe in God. "If nothing else as sort of an insurance policy in case He exists." If this is the sort of rationale that has people believing in a god, then quite honestly, that sort of thinking is all the more reason I remain an atheist.
The truth about these matters should not be realized by way of our wants and needs. Nor our fears or ignorance. About this too we should know by now how the truth is better realized. Whether it suits us or not.
I'm leaving City-Data permanently on 10-31-23 because of people that want to argue what God is or isn't in their belief system. I don't have time to argue only have enough time to love and I'm not going to waste 1 second trying to debate what God is. Sorry, I just wanted to let you know, I'm concentrating only on love not debates. My mind is made up it is fruitless for someone to discern their version of truth to me. So for the people that want to argue I have only one thing to say to you, goodbye!
HUGS! xoxo
I read the rest of your comment, but I'm only quoting the above part, because it's always a little sad to see when people become "disenchanted" with what goes on in the forum...
I suppose it can all be considered a debate of sorts, but I'm an atheist, and I simply enjoy "comparing notes" with others who think and believe differently than I do. Who basically go through life much as I do yet come to believe things that I don't. Too bad the "comparing of notes" along those lines is an unpleasant experience for people like you. I wish I could find a way to participate and share my thoughts to, as an atheist, without causing others to feel negatively about our differences of opinion or ways of thinking.
On the other hand, I've often felt and commented that this forum is pretty much nothing but a way to waste time, and if not pleasurable for anyone in any way, why bother? "Fruitless" to be sure, because as I have also noted many times in this forum, no one changes their mind about anything of consequence to them as a result of any comments posted in this thread. Pointless if the goal is to change anyone's mind about anything like this. True, but I'm just not sure that exchanging thoughts and opinions in this forum need come at the expense of concentrating on love as well.
Finally just to ask what is it about 10-31-23 that makes that your end date? Why even one more day?
It started when the Genesis accounts did not match what we scientifically know. Then we have the realization that the gospels are allegories, all derived from Mark, and that the early scriptures did not appear to know of a historical Jesus.
And logically miracles are improbable events, it is not likely to be true that someone walked on water, so why should we believe miracles in the Bible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
What convinced you that Jesus/God is not real?
For gods, the lack of credible evidence, the fact a god belief asserts answers to the big questions, and the lack of gods explains things much better than some alleged intelligence just existing.
For Jesus, I used to accept there was a historical man, then I read the epistle to to Hebrews, which place Jesus in heaven, not earth. Then I reread Paul's letters, and a revealed, angelic Jesus made more sense of them than a historical person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
Do you genuinely believe that human beings just randomly "popped" into existence and we are just here just because?
Yes, we have evidence random chaos can create order, from quantum physics creating our classical physics world; atoms creating molecules; chaotic dust clouds creating stars and planets; and life from chemicals and molecules.
This to me makes more sense than an intelligent god just existing.
And 'just because' is the argument for a god, who allegedly exists 'just because'. Logically there was either absolute nothing, including gods, or there was an eternal something. So we do not need a god to explain this. And if absolutely nothing is possible, that would mean there were no rules to explain how absolute nothing behaves, including the rule 'something can not come from nothing'. If absolutely nothing is not possible, then the only other possible option is an eternal something, regardless of what that something is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
There are many testimonies of "spiritual activity". Eg: people getting readings from mediums (with the medium and the person not knowing each other), people who have "seen" something with 100% lucidity after no brain activity for several minutes, people who vow that they had a "vision" of something and they are not taking any medicine or drugs. What are your thoughts on these things? Do you think it's all rubbish and bull**** or do you think there could be "something" out there?
Some may be true, but the large number of fakes and mistakes increases the chances they are all fakes and mistakes. Plus no one has been able to explain how this spiritual world actually works. How do spirits see, do they have spirit eyes? And if souls exist, why do we need a body to house them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
What if you're wrong and God/Jesus is real?
That would be for God/Jesus to say, but if other religions are invented (and they must be if Christianity is true), then that increases the chances they are all invented, including Christianity.
There was actually a video on YouTube where a Catholic asked a priest about a conversation the priest had with an atheist. The atheist asked "what if you are wrong and God is not real?". The priest smiled and said "then I am wrong. I have nothing to lose. but what if you are wrong?". Basically, nobody loses anything if God is not real but if God indeed is real, there are many people in our universe who are <<bleep>> lol.
Depends on the god. It is not a binary choice. Also, that priest's answer implies his god is an immoral monster.
Also, if he is wrong, then he has been a priest for nothing, so maybe he does have something to lose.
I read the rest of your comment, but I'm only quoting the above part, because it's always a little sad to see when people become "disenchanted" with what goes on in the forum...
I suppose it can all be considered a debate of sorts, but I'm an atheist, and I simply enjoy "comparing notes" with others who think and believe differently than I do. Who basically go through life much as I do yet come to believe things that I don't. Too bad the "comparing of notes" along those lines is an unpleasant experience for people like you. I wish I could find a way to participate and share my thoughts to, as an atheist, without causing others to feel negatively about our differences of opinion or ways of thinking.
On the other hand, I've often felt and commented that this forum is pretty much nothing but a way to waste time, and if not pleasurable for anyone in any way, why bother? "Fruitless" to be sure, because as I have also noted many times in this forum, no one changes their mind about anything of consequence to them as a result of any comments posted in this thread. Pointless if the goal is to change anyone's mind about anything like this. True, but I'm just not sure that exchanging thoughts and opinions in this forum need come at the expense of concentrating on love as well.
Finally just to ask what is it about 10-31-23 that makes that your end date? Why even one more day?
Regarding the second-last paragraph, I believe that both thrillobyte and Northsouth have said that City-Data forum material played an integral role in their becoming atheists.
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