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You say the actual world/universe "does not work like that". What do you mean? Can you elaborate?
Did your parents not give you the birds and the bees talk? If not, you might want to ask them and not me.
If a Jesus existed, then, he was a human and he had a human father who had sex with his mom. Because that is how people come to exist. Chromosomes. Nucleic acid. Genetic information.
And what other of the random magic silliness in there do you want me to talk about? We live in a universe made up of microscopic particles interacting, and biology is physical. Earth was formed by the forces of gravity. Laws govern all this. Have you heard a snake talk? No, because that doesn't make any sense. The Abhramic faiths are mythology equivalent to the Greek gods. (Except the Greek gods are way cooler.)
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So you believe in evolution. Me too.
Evolution is a fact. You can accept it or be in denial. I'm the former.
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We are the "effect" of something. We came from something else. Christians say the "cause" of everything is God. Atheists argue, if that is true, what caused God? Some Christians counter this by saying that is not a valid question. You can't keep going back. You need to have a baseline and nothing before it. It's an interesting topic to ponder on.
What's actually relevant, though, is not whether a God created the big bang, or not. Like, who cares, or how does that matter?
The point is that he hasn't done anything sense. It's all on autopilot since then based on the rules of physical particle interaction. We live in a cold, physical universe. Nature is not saddened or sentimental.
It's like, everybody on here talking about God all the time should have to sit in a children's cancer ward and type out their responses.
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So you say that people who have no brain activity for several minutes are confused/incorrect by what they experienced? If a person flatlined for 15 minutes and their grandma stood next to their body crying and was wearing a polka dotted dress and the person was able to be revived and say "I saw this, this, and this and the white tunnel.....oh and before that, I saw grandma crying over my body wearing a polka dotted dress". It'd say that person was accurate.
We may not know the explanation, but that doesn't mean that there's not one, and, that doesn't mean, "so therefore our mythology stories are real". That's a lazy and dumb way of looking at things.
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Who said hell is a fire pit?
I dunno, people who've told me about Hell? Half the billboards in North Carolina?
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You show no fear of going to hell. But it sounds like you are completely confident that IF God and hell is real, you would go face-to-face with them, raise your fist, and protest. But it interests me that you define hell is a fire pit.
The specific mythological character you're speaking of is an immoral, uninspiring being, to say the least. (And a mass murderer.) I don't want anything to do with the guy. Satan is a million times cooler, and just a better person all around. I want to go to his place. You can have your stupid clouds full of Karens.
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How do you define the "Christian God"?
The God that Christians believe in? The attributes thereof? I dunno, I'm not a Christian. Go ask them. I'm familiar enough with the character to make the comments I've made.
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Are you an atheist because you disagree and oppose the traditional definition of God? As a Christian, I disagree with a lot of people's definitions of what God is.
I don't believe in the existence of God. I think all of it is a made up human story. Every kind of variation of that idea.
It sticks around because it gives people comfort. That much is harmless enough, that's fine, but the harmful part is fundamentalism and organized religion and theocracy.
Lotta different thoughts but very interesting, nonetheless...
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Did your parents not give you the birds and the bees talk? If not, you might want to ask them and not me.
If a Jesus existed, then, he was a human and he had a human father who had sex with his mom. Because that is how people come to exist. Chromosomes. Nucleic acid. Genetic information.
And what other of the random magic silliness in there do you want me to talk about? We live in a universe made up of microscopic particles interacting, and biology is physical. Earth was formed by the forces of gravity. Laws govern all this. Have you heard a snake talk? No, because that doesn't make any sense. The Abhramic faiths are mythology equivalent to the Greek gods. (Except the Greek gods are way cooler.)
You seem like the kind of person who grins and jokes when it comes to talking about religion. I'm being serious. I want to learn something. I do not believe science has the answer for everything, but neither does religion. I just want to learn without someone saying "you want to talk about that fantasy rubbish? go ahead. just a bunch of silliness".
When you read the bible, did you take everything literally word-for-word? It seems like you read the bible and took everything literally, something many Christians don't do. I happen to be one of them. If I took the bible literally, I'd be very confused. I seriously doubt everything in the bible is to be read word-for-word. I think that is the mistakes most atheists and Christians make: arguing over the bible based on reading it too literally.
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Evolution is a fact. You can accept it or be in denial. I'm the former.
What's actually relevant, though, is not whether a God created the big bang, or not. Like, who cares, or how does that matter?
The point is that he hasn't done anything sense. It's all on autopilot since then based on the rules of physical particle interaction. We live in a cold, physical universe. Nature is not saddened or sentimental.
I agree. I believe in evolution. I am interested to know how the universe started because again, science does not answer the question. I don't want to get scientific but it does interest me. "Autopilot" is an interesting way to describe the universe. lol, I could ask you more questions but you would probably respond with "why does it matter? how is it relevant?" as though I am annoying you with questions you don't care about. A plane can go on autopilot but it did not go on autopilot on its own. Someone caused it to go on autopilot. There is always a "cause" that made something happen (effect).
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It's like, everybody on here talking about God all the time should have to sit in a children's cancer ward and type out their responses.
You'd be surprised. Many people hate God because someone got an illness or someone died after they prayed so hard for survival or recovery. Other people grieve and move on and say "oh well, maybe it was their time to day".
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We may not know the explanation, but that doesn't mean that there's not one, and, that doesn't mean, "so therefore our mythology stories are real". That's a lazy and dumb way of looking at things.
True.
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I dunno, people who've told me about Hell? Half the billboards in North Carolina?
The specific mythological character you're speaking of is an immoral, uninspiring being, to say the least. (And a mass murderer.) I don't want anything to do with the guy. Satan is a million times cooler, and just a better person all around. I want to go to his place. You can have your stupid clouds full of Karens.
So.....just because the billboards in NC say that hell is full of fire, you believe it? On a serious note, there are actually different interpretations of what "hell" is.
I would suggest re-reading the bible from a different angle. It looks like you read the bible literally, asked some atheists for their thoughts on the bible, then came to your own conclusion.
Do you like politics? Anyone who says "Karen" reminds me of republicans who do nothing but watch Fox News and obsess over Trump. Nothing against Trump or republicans but I swear they have made that name very popular....
I'd be careful with associating with evil but who am I to tell you what to do....
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The God that Christians believe in? The attributes thereof? I dunno, I'm not a Christian. Go ask them. I'm familiar enough with the character to make the comments I've made.
I don't believe in the existence of God. I think all of it is a made up human story. Every kind of variation of that idea.
It sticks around because it gives people comfort. That much is harmless enough, that's fine, but the harmful part is fundamentalism and organized religion and theocracy.
Christians have different beliefs in what "God" is. Which belief are you referring to? Based on your response, you really aren't taking this topic seriously. I actually agree that religion brings people a lot of people comfort. But if you dig deep enough, you would actually find that it's more than just a "made up human story" but that's something you'd have to do on your own and again, you seem very uninterested.
I want to learn something. I do not believe science has the answer for everything, but neither does religion. I just want to learn without someone saying "you want to talk about that fantasy rubbish? go ahead. just a bunch of silliness".
When you read the bible, did you take everything literally word-for-word? It seems like you read the bible and took everything literally, something many Christians don't do. I happen to be one of them. If I took the bible literally, I'd be very confused. I seriously doubt everything in the bible is to be read word-for-word. I think that is the mistakes most atheists and Christians make: arguing over the bible based on reading it too literally.
9 See, the day of the Lord is coming
—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
12 I will make people scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.
14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
they will all return to their own people,
they will flee to their native land.
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
Well, that part of your Bible is definitely not silliness.
Literal or metaphorical, sorry, I don't think that a perfect being created hundreds of billions of galaxies each full of hundreds of billions of stars, then authored/inspired those badass death metal lyrics.
Any actual God would not punish anyone for anything, because any actual God would already know exactly what everyone is going to do, and why. He wouldn't orchestrate the murder of helpless little kids- he would forgive every single living being for everything, who are just products of the limitations of their genetics.
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I am interested to know how the universe started
Definitely. Me too. I wonder if there was a universe before this one, or if there are other universes way out there now. Maybe there are hundreds of billions of what we call universes, just like there are hundreds of billions of galaxies.
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because again, science does not answer the question.
Scientific observation/inquiry, is not a body of knowledge. And it's not any more or less capable of answering that question than it is any other question. It's just that we don't have any additional information right now about that question.
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So.....just because the billboards in NC say that hell is full of fire, you believe it? On a serious note, there are actually different interpretations of what "hell" is.
Yeah, and they're all total fiction. How could anyone describe the afterlife if they haven't died yet? Lol.
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I would suggest re-reading the bible from a different angle. It looks like you read the bible literally, asked some atheists for their thoughts on the bible, then came to your own conclusion.
From which angle should I read the part where the guy burns his daughter alive as a sacrifice to God, and God (the creator of hundreds of billions of galaxies full of stars and planets and all existence), is pleased with that and rewards him? It's in Judges somewhere.
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I'd be careful with associating with evil but who am I to tell you what to do....
Well, that part of your Bible is definitely not silliness.
Literal or metaphorical, sorry, I don't think that a perfect being created hundreds of billions of galaxies each full of hundreds of billions of stars, then authored/inspired those badass death metal lyrics.
Any actual God would not punish anyone for anything, because any actual God would already know exactly what everyone is going to do, and why. He wouldn't orchestrate the murder of helpless little kids- he would forgive every single living being for everything, who are just products of the limitations of their genetics.
I'm no expert on scripture BUT there are people who are.
This guy responds to atheists in a lot of his videos. You can come up with your own conclusions once you watch the video but he does bring up a great point.
Each one of us sets a standard by which we live by. You say "Any actual God would not punish anyone for anything, because any actual God would already know exactly what everyone is going to do, and why." This is your subjective opinion. You are defining God in your own way. Can God punish people? Sure. Can God reward people? Sure. Why? I have no idea. The bible talks about God but again, I don't really take the bible literally. It seems like you have your own definition of what God is and you are going against God based on your own definition, which may or may not be true.
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Originally Posted by primaltech
Yeah, and they're all total fiction. How could anyone describe the afterlife if they haven't died yet? Lol.
From which angle should I read the part where the guy burns his daughter alive as a sacrifice to God, and God (the creator of hundreds of billions of galaxies full of stars and planets and all existence), is pleased with that and rewards him? It's in Judges somewhere.
There are many testimonies of people dying for several minutes, then describing (after being revived) in very clear detail what happened to them including what happened to them in the hospital room. You're saying their testimonies are false? I haven't seen any case studies on these testimonies. For some strange reason, science has been unable to come up with any clear explanation to NDEs.
As for your question about God rewarding the guy who burns his daughter alive, again.....read the video above. In your subjective opinion, it is wrong to allow God to do such a thing. As humans, our morality tells us it is wrong to reward the murder of anyone or anything. Here's another video of an atheist who asks a similar question:
We could actually create a whole new thread on the concept of God allowing people to get killed. I know atheists would be all over it... "Why would a PERFECT God allow such a BAD thing to happen?" It's probably one of the top reasons why atheists think Christianity is rubbish.
Do you believe the disciples of Jesus were real people? If so, what evidence convinces you that they were real people?
Who wrote the bible?
Why us? Our universe is constantly expanding and we have no idea what is out there. High probability that we are not the only "beings" that exist in the universe. Why did God choose Earth for Jesus to live on? Do you believe God came down as a human being on other planets as well?
What convinces you that there is an afterlife aside from what the bible says?
What if you're wrong about God?
If you are part of a denomination, what convinced you to choose that denomination and not others?
What convinces you that Christianity is the "right" religion and not other religions?
Do you believe that God is responsible for everything? eg: if you are approved for a house, you should show grace and be thankful to God.
For atheists:
What convinced you that the bible is not real?
What convinced you that Jesus/God is not real?
Do you genuinely believe that human beings just randomly "popped" into existence and we are just here just because?
There are many testimonies of "spiritual activity". Eg: people getting readings from mediums (with the medium and the person not knowing each other), people who have "seen" something with 100% lucidity after no brain activity for several minutes, people who vow that they had a "vision" of something and they are not taking any medicine or drugs. What are your thoughts on these things? Do you think it's all rubbish and bull**** or do you think there could be "something" out there?
What if you're wrong and God/Jesus is real?
That's it
I believe Jesus and disciples were real people, I believe all churches and their followers beame corrupt over time and forgot the message of family, love, forgiveness and home.
I think man abused the bible with their own greed and lust for power. I stay as far away from anyone using bible verses to try to answer questions. To me the bible is a historical document attempting to explain religion to the masses and nothing else. It has been used to murder and condemn people including Jesus to death. I will never trust anyone that uses bible verses exclusively. Having a relationship with a living God is much more important to me than some words written on a paper that some people seem to worship the Bible-God as opposed to the Living-God. I have no I'll will to Bible-God worshipers unless they use their bible-God to shun, belittle, condemn, invalidate, bully, coerce, discern, control, threaten, attack, hate, harm anyone that is not a Bible-God follower like they are.
Mathematically speaking it would be impossible to believe Earth is the only planet to obtain intelligent life forms, but out of all the Universe the historical document known as the bible seems to suggest that out of the trillions of stars and planetary systems that are out there, God only focused on our planet to carry out His plan. This could be the arrogance of the authors of the bible that only focuses on their own planet without considering other possible life forms out in the universe. However, it wouldn't shake my faith in God if other intelligent life forms were discovered. I would be curious to see if they even have a religious system in their culture. Since I have no proof, interactions, or experiences with alien life forms I can't comment on this scenario. Unfortunately I only have contact with human Earth bound spirits and non human spirits occupying our spiritual realm since I am a witch that deals with supernatural phenomenon on a daily basis.
I don't belong to a religious denomination so fortunately I don't have a dogma or article of faith one must follow to be saved. That is up to each and every individual to decide for themselves what faith they choose to follow or refrain from all together if they are Atheist. I could care less what a person believes in, the only thing that matters to me is how grateful I am to have you in my life if you are gracious enough to have me and know I will love you unconditionally and without judgement. This is my religion and the love I have for you!
I'm leaving City-Data permanently on 10-31-23 because of people that want to argue what God is or isn't in their belief system. I don't have time to argue only have enough time to love and I'm not going to waste 1 second trying to debate what God is. Sorry, I just wanted to let you know, I'm concentrating only on love not debates. My mind is made up it is fruitless for someone to discern their version of truth to me. So for the people that want to argue I have only one thing to say to you, goodbye!
You say "Any actual God would not punish anyone for anything, because any actual God would already know exactly what everyone is going to do, and why." This is your subjective opinion. You are defining God in your own way.
So, you believe in a God that's not omniscient?
To clarify, I don't think that free will makes any sense as a concept in the first place, but if we do have "free will", and God doesn't know what we're going to do with it (and can be happy or disappointed with us, reward or punish us, etc.- we can surprise him), then, that is not an omniscient God, which the Abrahamic God is described to be.
Not only that, but, does God have free will? If he does have a true free will, then, that also is incompatible with his being omniscient.
Omniscience and omnipotence, two attributes commonly ascribed to the God you believe in, are both paradoxical and inherently nonsensical concepts. Pretty much if God is an actual being or entity, then, any being necessarily has limitations.
Which means that he would not be a perfect God, or one worthy of worship.
Anyway, my point above, was that if I go ahead and assume that you're correct, that there is all-knowing, all-seeing, creator and manager of all the cosmos and everything, and watching everyone masturbate, etc.- then he would know the exact presence of every single sub-atomic particle at every single point in all of the history of time, including where those particles will all be at the next moment in the future, and so on. Every single particle and atom that contain and make up my brain, nervous system, body, everything. And of course he would know every single last detail about every single person's genetics, environment, circumstances, etc.
So, this was my point. What would he be punishing me for? He would know exactly why I don't believe in him, and what all caused and contributed to me being exactly the atheist person that I am. And of course, he created me, he planned me into existence, etc. So who's he punishing? Himself? I can't magically do things that I'm not capable of doing.
An actually benevolent God (another attribute that is assigned to your God), would be nothing at all like the God of the bible, or of all the various Christian tall-tales. There would be no hell whatsoever. Every single being that ever lived would be completely loved and forgiven by such an actual God, period, in the complete and total understanding that only he would be capable of. And it wouldn't matter whether I believe in him or not- any non-narcissist God would not care.
I have my doubts about most concepts of a God, but if there is one, I have no reason to be afraid, and nor does anyone else. All the Christianity nonsense is a means of controlling and subjugating people via fear and ignorance.
To clarify, I don't think that free will makes any sense as a concept in the first place, but if we do have "free will", and God doesn't know what we're going to do with it (and can be happy or disappointed with us, reward or punish us, etc.- we can surprise him), then, that is not an omniscient God, which the Abrahamic God is described to be.
Not only that, but, does God have free will? If he does have a true free will, then, that also is incompatible with his being omniscient.
Omniscience and omnipotence, two attributes commonly ascribed to the God you believe in, are both paradoxical and inherently nonsensical concepts. Pretty much if God is an actual being or entity, then, any being necessarily has limitations.
Which means that he would not be a perfect God, or one worthy of worship.
Anyway, my point above, was that if I go ahead and assume that you're correct, that there is all-knowing, all-seeing, creator and manager of all the cosmos and everything, and watching everyone masturbate, etc.- then he would know the exact presence of every single sub-atomic particle at every single point in all of the history of time, including where those particles will all be at the next moment in the future, and so on. Every single particle and atom that contain and make up my brain, nervous system, body, everything. And of course he would know every single last detail about every single person's genetics, environment, circumstances, etc.
So, this was my point. What would he be punishing me for? He would know exactly why I don't believe in him, and what all caused and contributed to me being exactly the atheist person that I am. And of course, he created me, he planned me into existence, etc. So who's he punishing? Himself? I can't magically do things that I'm not capable of doing.
An actually benevolent God (another attribute that is assigned to your God), would be nothing at all like the God of the bible, or of all the various Christian tall-tales. There would be no hell whatsoever. Every single being that ever lived would be completely loved and forgiven by such an actual God, period, in the complete and total understanding that only he would be capable of. And it wouldn't matter whether I believe in him or not- any non-narcissist God would not care.
I have my doubts about most concepts of a God, but if there is one, I have no reason to be afraid, and nor does anyone else. All the Christianity nonsense is a means of controlling and subjugating people via fear and ignorance.
The Omni's are entirely the creation of human wishful thinking, vanity, and hubris. Who are we to decide what God MUST be to qualify as God????
Jesus and His disciples were definitely real people, See I got saved to Jesus in a profound way and have an experience beyond just believing before people, so God promised that He would bring these experiences when Jesus died on a cross, then these experiences came true, so I'm a witness of the cross of Christ, and God is true and alive............. The earth is the centre of the attention of God, and God did say to hear that the universe outside the earth is sterol of life, and even said that the UFOs witches are stuck on the earth along the naturally unseen wicked devil angels, plus evil demons, UFOs can go into space, but there is nothing there, so they stay on and close to the earth .................. Yes there is life through Christ in the afterlife for people born again In Christ as God said to hear that this is true and God said His words don't come back to Him false ........ Yes Christianity is the only true belief form as it is authored by the living God and God led the life of hear and many people, and we know God in an hour to hour day to day year to year experience
Do you believe the disciples of Jesus were real people? If so, what evidence convinces you that they were real people?
Yes. Some of them founded churches which are still in existence today. Some of them wrote books that we still have today. Multiple sources have written about them.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
Who wrote the bible?
The Bible is a collection of books with dozens of different authors. Much of it we can attribute to particular authors, but some of it is unattributed as the authors are not known for certain.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
Why us? Our universe is constantly expanding and we have no idea what is out there. High probability that we are not the only "beings" that exist in the universe. Why did God choose Earth for Jesus to live on?
God didn't *choose* earth for Jesus to live on. God *created* earth for Jesus to live on.
What is the purpose of Creation? Ultimately, the purpose is to please and glorify God. God was pleased to create a world full of men who could share in His Goodness forever, and to become one Himself and live and die among us.
There are no "aliens" as we conceive of them in the popular imagination. There are indeed other rational beings in the universe besides humans, and they are properly called angels and devils.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
Do you believe God came down as a human being on other planets as well?
No.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
What convinces you that there is an afterlife aside from what the bible says?
If there is no afterlife, then what would be the purpose of human existence? It would make no sense philosophically.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
What if you're wrong about God?
I'm quite certain that I am wrong about God in many ways, as the finite mind is not capable of comprehending God fully. What we can and do know is that God is Good, and that He is worthy of worship and trust. If I'm wrong about that and God is actually evil, then we're all screwed anyway.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
If you are part of a denomination, what convinced you to choose that denomination and not others?
Not applicable as I'm not a part of a denomination. I belong to the Catholic Church because it is the Church that Jesus Himself founded on Peter "the rock".
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
What convinces you that Christianity is the "right" religion and not other religions?
It's consistent, irrefutable, and wholly good. I'm not talking about individual Christians, I'm talking about the points of the Faith itself.
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Originally Posted by compwiz02
Do you believe that God is responsible for everything? eg: if you are approved for a house, you should show grace and be thankful to God.
It would depend on what you mean by "responsible". I do believe that human beings have free agency and free will, so we are responsible for our actions. However, any good that comes is ultimately from God. I definitely believe in giving thanks to God for all of the good and bad things in our lives, as both good and bad are gifts.
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