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I think that criticism of Judaism is perfectly valid but often, unsatisfying. What is there to criticize? If you (the generic "you" -- not meant to single any specific person out) don't accept our texts as authoritative then you criticize them. We say, "ok, whatever." If you think our rituals are archaic, you say so and we say "ok, they work for us. If they don't work for you, that's fine." And you don't have to be an atheist to criticize -- the biggest critics of Judaism are Jews.
If you want to take an individual or a community to task, and find a way to tie whatever they are or do to their religion, do you do that with other groups? If a guy shoots people in NYC and he is Christian, would you tie his actions to his religious identity? And if a community commits collective fraud, would you criticize the community or its religion?
What exactly would anyone want to target in Judaism? Are there questions that can be asked? Sure, but I find that a lot of criticism disappears when the underlying elements are explained, or shown to be beyond explanation and that rift of belief is acknowledged.
Great post. I hope the point of my post was not misunderstood. I did not mean to say Judaism should be criticized, but that it is somehow beyond atheist scrutiny made me wonder why that was.
The bolded: That would indeed be the case for an average person wanting to learn about Judaism. Unfortunately that is not my experience with atheists in this forum regarding Hinduism. There is a gap that cannot be bridged. I don't think it is due to lack of understanding but rather the fear of understanding.
Yet we had to explain to you that Hinduism was more complex than your simple view.
As I have observed Atheists have all the answers. If they don't they make them up and attack those made up faks. No end to fun and games.
Then ask a Christian to explain. But instead of explaining why Tzap was wrong, that Christians believe Yahweh is their god, you attack atheists instead. Let go of your hatred, it is killing this forum.
And how did Hindus force their beliefs on you? There is no conversion in Hinduism.
They did not. They too go in the class of religions we do not attack, criticize and ridicule. Do not confuse our 'attack, criticism and ridicule' of one Hindu with Hinduism itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
If you can pin one person's actions or interpretations on a whole community, and insist they should be condemned, whatever that means, sounds Biblical, then one atheist's blabbering also can represent the general atheist mindset, especially when it is not countered. That mindset is throw everything at the poster, whatever sticks sticks.
Correct, and when that happens, we should all point that out. But one can not ignore what one person does based on texts used by that whole community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb2008
That only discredits all atheists, they cannot be taken seriously.
And then you do the very thing you correctly pointed out is wrong. You do amuse.
No Hindu does that either. This Hindu talks about Hinduism and the philosophy, Vedanta, because this place has no forum for Hinduism. So people post questions about various aspects of Hinduism or incorrect assumptions a about it. There is a genuine interest in it, many follow the principles of Advaita. So this Hindu, and others like me, responds and discussion ensues.
I have not seen any poster or I saying you should be a Hindu because… or Hinduism is truth. The religion itself says none of that and instead asserts all paths lead to Divinity in a thousand different ways. I have said that many times. There IS no conversion to Hinduism because Hindus do not feel a need to promote it if all paths lead to the same place. In fact the Gita says better to follow your religion imperfectly than to adopt someone elses path.
I am positive you are not suggesting Hinduism should not be discussed at all because it offends Atheists. But it amounts to that because all that you mention about Jews and Judaism applies to Hinduism as well. The only difference is Jews keep to their own forum and hardly ever post here. Which is a pity because I would Ike to see a discussion of Judaism in a free and open space. But I understand their reluctance. This is not a free and open space.
I occasionally post in the Judaism forum, and have always been treated with respect. I once did a quick experiment in this forum to see who started the fights, and in 9 threads, 5 were started by the religious, 2 by one atheist, and only 2 threads remained respectful. You and anyone else are free to repeat this experiment for themselves, but if the results hold true, then perhaps the religious need to get their own house in order first.
There are a couple of things here that I have observed.
First, Jews don't generally proselytize others. In fact, it's more like if you show interest in Judaism they say... "so you really think you might want to be Jewish?".
Secondly, outside of a few areas, there aren't that many Jewish people to that you interact with. For instance, where I live there is evidence that Jews are around (Synagogues, Hillel on campus and such) but you rarely meet them and the ones we do have are A) fairly insular and protective of their culture but B) have adapted to the larger culture and blend in really easily with the culture at large which of course is mostly Christian. In fact, there is a reasonably large percentage of Jewish people here that are Messianic. You are as likely to run into a Messianic Jew as you are a traditional Jewish person. And I'd say this is true for a lot of flyover country. Being smaller groups, atheists and Jewish people don't run in to each other all that often to scrap with each other around here.
Finally, while atheists think the OT and other Hebrew scriptures are not legitimate. Both groups discount Jesus as being a legitimate Messiah for the Jews nor savior of mankind. So they are share that commonality. And since in the western world it is usually Christians that you are interacting with and debating... it is sort of an 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' type of relationship between atheists and Jews.
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