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I was thinking more along the lines of the expanse of the universe, the complexity of the human eye, etc.
To me that seems deterministic. Things we can understand to some degree and our understanding continues to advance. I'm more interested in things like this. https://youtu.be/WNbdUEqDB-k
I know this is a very touchy subject for a lot of people, and may be a fundamental issue in their faith.
However, we need to know the origin of this belief. It needs to be a believable and authoratative source for it to become a fundamental of our belief system.
What if we are ALL sons of God? Can we ALL call God our "Father" which means we are his sons/daughter and lay claim to a direct familial link to God?
If not, then maybe we can be cousins or second cousins, or just best mates?
So, lets have at it...
He's God the Son, and there are only 3 persons in the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), so it's pretty cut and dry.
However, we need to know the origin of this belief. It needs to be a believable and authoratative source for it to become a fundamental of our belief system.
The origin is the Nicene Council.
There is a problem, because there is the Yahweh-thing and the Jesus-thing and the Yahweh-thing never says he will create a special "christ" to save the world. Prior to the Jesus-thing and during his life and even after he allegedly died, there were in fact several 100 messiahs or "christs" (they mean the same thing).
Likewise, the Jesus-thing never once claims Yahweh is his father.
Yahweh is not the only god. Yahweh says so himself, and he also says he was allied with other gods and they waged war against other gods.
Accordingly, as painful as it may be, Islam is the only true monotheistic religion. Followers of Judaism and christianity practice monolatry, the worship of one god to the exclusion of all other gods, or put another way, the elevation of one god above other gods to national god status.
What you had was a god and then a man elevated to god status, which is henotheism at the most and polytheism at the least. That made it difficult to get the many polytheistic and henotheistic tribes in the area to convert.
To solve that problem, humans then claimed Yahweh and Jesus were one in the same and invented the trinity nonsense to explain it away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20
What if we are ALL sons of God? Can we ALL call God our "Father" which means we are his sons/daughter and lay claim to a direct familial link to God?
We are not.
Apparently, you don't understand that particular phrase, which is a Sumerian-Akkadian loan-word, specifically bene-elohim refers to biological children, not figurative children.
Furthermore, the correct translation and interpretation of that word is sons of gods, not sons of god.
The word elohim means gods in the plural. The fact that today it is incorrectly interpreted as god in the singular does not alter the fact that it originally meant gods plural.
I would also point out the only reason you're discussing this is due to Emperor Theodosius.
He issued an edict making christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire and outlawed under penalty of death all other religions.
If he doesn't do that, you wouldn't know anything about christianity.
I know this is a very touchy subject for a lot of people, and may be a fundamental issue in their faith.
However, we need to know the origin of this belief. It needs to be a believable and authoratative source for it to become a fundamental of our belief system.
What if we are ALL sons of God? Can we ALL call God our "Father" which means we are his sons/daughter and lay claim to a direct familial link to God?
If not, then maybe we can be cousins or second cousins, or just best mates?
So, lets have at it...
Well, the Bible doesn't say that Jesus is the only son of God. In the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament, angels are called sons of God (Job 1:6, 2:1; Genesis 6:2,6:4). The nation Israel is called God's son (Exodus 4:22-23). In the New Testament believers in Jesus Christ are called sons of God by way of adoption (Romans 8:14-17).
But Jesus is the Son of God in a unique, one of a kind way.
He's God the Son, and there are only 3 persons in the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), so it's pretty cut and dry.
Christianity is your faith - and I personally believe in Jesus too, the miraculous birth and his miracles to raise the dead and his miracles to breath life in a clay bird.
But once you give Jesus the false stature of being a God or God’s son, then you are better off not trying to explain the Trinity. Keep it as your belief and we are OK with it.
But once if you start trying to explain Trinity, you shoot yourself in foot.
Again, no disrespect to your faith and no offense to you but plz watch this video carefully a couple of times.
Take a paper n pen to write the equations and try to connect the dots, pause wherever and whenever you to repeat - This will give you a view of how non-believers look at Trinity when you open the can of worms of trying to explain it.
"Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord." Job 2:1
Christianity is your faith - and I personally believe in Jesus too, the miraculous birth and his miracles to raise the dead and his miracles to breath life in a clay bird.
But once you give Jesus the false stature of being a God or God’s son, then you are better off not trying to explain the Trinity. Keep it as your belief and we are OK with it.
He called himself God.
Quote:
But once if you start trying to explain Trinity, you shoot yourself in foot.
Again, no disrespect to your faith and no offense to you but plz watch this video carefully a couple of times.
Take a paper n pen to write the equations and try to connect the dots, pause wherever and whenever you to repeat - This will give you a view of how non-believers look at Trinity when you open the can of worms of trying to explain it.
I watched it. Wasn't impressed. Full of straw-man arguments. It's apparent that Mr. Antifa-wannabe just doesn't have a clue what the doctrine of the Trinity is. I could answer point-by-point, but I'm honestly not sure you'd really give my response the time of the same courtesy I did by watching your cute little propaganda video.
I watched it. Wasn't impressed. Full of straw-man arguments. It's apparent that Mr. Antifa-wannabe just doesn't have a clue what the doctrine of the Trinity is. I could answer point-by-point, but I'm honestly not sure you'd really give my response the time of the same courtesy I did by watching your cute little propaganda video.
As I stated earlier - you shouldn’t, because you can’t.
You are better off believing in it WITHOUT trying to explain it.
As I stated earlier - you shouldn’t, because you can’t.
You are better off believing in it WITHOUT trying to explain it.
I'm perfectly content with what the Bible says about it. If you want to rely on this nonsensical video to make you feel better about rejecting a Biblical truth, not much I can do for you.
I'm perfectly content with what the Bible says about it. If you want to rely on this nonsensical video to make you feel better about rejecting a Biblical truth, not much I can do for you.
I think you took offense to the video. You will deny it but you seem to have taken it. Even though I made a disclaimer that this is NOT to attack your faith. It was only to show you how non-believers of Trinity (a word that doesn’t exist in Bible) see it.
“Both terms are used in scripture”
Yes that interchangeability is what is explained in the video.
He changes God with God’s son and then interchanges it with Holy Spirit. Please watch it again with a cool mind as a non offensive view to see the “interchangeability” as it’s seen by non-believers of Trinity.
This is the whole idea of this forum so that we understand each other’s point of view - without extending or taking any offense.
Last edited by GoCardinals; 05-06-2023 at 08:22 AM..
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