For those who are exhausted! (spirits, heaven, exist, Christ)
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I am like your wife. I have a problem with dirty dishes. But to explain the bolded part, I use the phrase "I can't care more than you" when my daughter doesn't want to put any effort into her schoolwork.
Like a good friend of mine would often say about his children, "nothing happens for them because they actually have to DO something."
Sure, two isn't a magic number, depending on your available resources and health and so on.
My daughter had 3 boys before the girls started coming. I think she really wanted a girl because she has the notion that she's reversing or undoing the damage her mother did -- it gives her some kind of closure. That's understandable, but not in my view a valid input into decisions around having children. But it's none of my business, so I keep my lips zipped.
The other thing I am silent about is when she complains now about how exhausted she always is and financially strained with so many kids. And unlike you, her husband isn't the main wage earner. She's made the bed and now has to sleep in it, so to speak. Fortunately she has a wealthy mother in law willing to help out.
Also in play, my daughter has a congenital heart defect and it produces cardiomyopathy when she's under the additional physical load of pregnancy, and it gets worse with each pregnancy. So she has also been risking her life without what I feel is sufficient regard to the needs of her existing children in the service of this primal need she has to keep producing babies. THAT I have had a little bit to say about, but it isn't my place beyond expressing my deep concern and worry for her welfare. I'm quite certain she'd go for #6 if she thought she could possibly get away with it. Hopefully at 43 she knows better.
I've noted that people like this often are driven by an enjoyment of dealing with infants and experiencing early development and then tend to lose a lot of interest when the adolescent years come along and children no longer adore you like they used to because they're differentiating. My daughter is no exception to this, unfortunately. I've had my oldest grandson spend a few days here and he said in so many words he just doesn't get any focused attention. He's also HF autistic and ADD and seems kind of on his own with it. I spent a few months tutoring him remotely and it seemed like more of a lifeline for him than it should have been.
Being a parent is a continuum and a tradeoff like everything else. My wife had 2 of her own and was also contemplating #3 but her first marriage, like mine, wasn't stable and she stood down. And in retrospect, TBH, as much as she loves her children beyond measure and would be devastated if anything happened to either of them, the outcome with both of them makes her wonder if she should have had any to begin with. These two feelings are not incompatible.
There's also just the general state of the world to factor in. It's wartime. Fuel and food shortages and other extrinsic shocks are very much on the horizon. People generally don't factor that in; arguably maybe they should. There are ethical questions around bringing children into constrained circumstances where it might be hard at times to provide for even basic needs.
It sounds to me like you're on much firmer ground than I was and you certainly should do whatever you think is best. I'm not really advocating for smaller families per se. There are some couples who probably would be do well having an even dozen for all I know. My experience is just my experience. There are too many variables to make hard and fast rules.
One of the great ironies of life, to me, is that our experiences in relationships / family/ children is necessarily a very small sample and it's hard to generalize from my experience to you or anyone else. You do you, but just understand that loving your role and the idea of expanding it doesn't guarantee that it's a good idea in the current on-the-ground circumstances. And in my view at least, there's no reliable actor on your behalf tipping the scales in your favor.
You and your husband will, I'm quite certain, make the right decisions, for you, and I will be the very last person to judge your decisions. These are just my experiences and observations, for whatever they may or may not be worth.
I am sorry you have experienced some of these challenging family matters, and to some extent still are...
You are wise to keep your lips zipped once the kids come of age, and you raise some interesting questions about making "right decisions" that parents might make for themselves but of course those decisions have implications for other than themselves which are sometimes considered. Often not.
I am reminded of my good friend who got his wife pregnant at a young age, well before he had any thoughts about marriage. She is a devout Mormon, and he comes from a Mormon family. How she got pregnant is hard to understand, since both of them are intelligent successful people. Then again, I guess we can all understand how that goes sometimes regardless. When my friend broke the news to me about his girl friend getting pregnant, I advised he need not get married to be a good father if they chose to keep the baby, but his father impressed on him the "right thing to do," and they got married straight away. Then had another daughter and a son before they got divorced.
Not all that uncommon a story, but then you would think given the strong Mormon upbringing my friend's first wife continued with their three children, the girls would come to know better. Still, both daughters also get pregnant out of wedlock. One keeps her son and the other puts hers up for adoption. Unfortunately, religious beliefs have a way of keeping parents from considering all they should about parenting, because they leave getting pregnant "in God's hands."
Let's not even get started about all the people who have children without thinking a lick about how they will be able to care for them. Talk about a problem that not only affects them but their children and all of society one way or another...
Yesterday, I was exhausted. Not a lot of sleep as I naturally have sleep issues and then from my youngest keeping me up...then I was moving all day...didn't eat a lot, I did a lot of exercise first thing in the morning...played with my boys...had to deal with fussy boys...cleaned...did chores. Always moving or lifting.
I eventually with about 20 minutes before my husband came home had the luck of both boys napping at once.
I flopped down on the recliner, laid on my back, kicked my feet up and I don't think I moved a muscle once just exhausted until John came in the front door. My mind numb.
I told him if he wanted dinner, he'd need to order in food or expect something simple like French Toast - of course with nutmeg, cinnamon, and vanilla so it wouldn't be too bad! 21 and already old!
What are all of your spiritual/religious quotes for exhaustion? Any stories?
I'd love to tell you it gets easier QB but it doesn't!
My kids are 21, 18 and 17 and I'm only just now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
My youngest is doing her college applications right now, so fingers crossed, this time next year, all three of them will be at college. I'm definitely not wishing their lives away at all, but I almost feel guilty to admit that I'm looking forward to devoting a bit of time to myself.
And when they do leave, it's the worst thing ever - it tears you in two. It's a double edged sword. So cherish ever single second with them while you have it, because trust me, 18 years will go FAST.
When you take on this motherhood malarky, you are committing to putting others before yourself. That's just the way it is. There have been times when I've taken my eye off the ball for a moment and tried to put myself first and it's never worked out.
BUT it's the most rewarding and important job in the world. There's nothing like it. You are raising wonderful kids that will grow to be wonderful adults. So keep going QB. Sleep is important so nap when you can don't feel at all guilty about it. You can't function properly without enough sleep.
When my husband used to make comments that he'd been at work all day, I'd respond with.. 'so have I! And mine is 24 hours!
I'd love to tell you it gets easier QB but it doesn't!
My kids are 21, 18 and 17 and I'm only just now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
My youngest is doing her college applications right now, so fingers crossed, this time next year, all three of them will be at college. I'm definitely not wishing their lives away at all, but I almost feel guilty to admit that I'm looking forward to devoting a bit of time to myself.
And when they do leave, it's the worst thing ever - it tears you in two. It's a double edged sword. So cherish ever single second with them while you have it, because trust me, 18 years will go FAST.
When you take on this motherhood malarky, you are committing to putting others before yourself. That's just the way it is. There have been times when I've taken my eye off the ball for a moment and tried to put myself first and it's never worked out.
BUT it's the most rewarding and important job in the world. There's nothing like it. You are raising wonderful kids that will grow to be wonderful adults. So keep going QB. Sleep is important so nap when you can don't feel at all guilty about it. You can't function properly without enough sleep.
When my husband used to make comments that he'd been at work all day, I'd respond with.. 'so have I! And mine is 24 hours!
"Parenthood. The final frontier..."
I think this has been discussed before, because I know I posted a bit about us becoming "empty nesters" and how it's much as you describe. When our last of two left the nest, we were fortunate to move to where we live now. We have always loved our kids beyond words. Always doing all kinds of family things with them, so parting ways was very hard indeed. When our last went off to college, we moved where we always hoped we'd be able to retire. The move helped us tremendously, because rather than dwell on missing them, we were able to focus on new horizons. For a variety of reasons, the move really helped put badly needed wind in our sales.
I took a job here to close out my career and keep the medical coverage going until I was able to retire at 59-1/2 years old, and the new job was somewhat interesting as well. Unfortunately it turned out to be quite the roller coaster ride that is a story in-and-of itself, but the greatest reward about that move was to allow my wife to get out from under a toxic work environment that was literally killing her. Soon after I got my job here, she quit hers and hasn't had to work for an employer since.
Fortunately our two kids are doing very well too, and we count our blessings every day for our good fortune along these lines. Knowing all the while things can change as they always do in life, at any moment. Meanwhile it's "live life to the fullest" best we are able. One day at a time best we are able.
I think this has been discussed before, because I know I posted a bit about us becoming "empty nesters" and how it's much as you describe. When our last of two left the nest, we were fortunate to move to where we live now. We have always loved our kids beyond words. Always doing all kinds of family things with them, so parting ways was very hard indeed. When our last went off to college, we moved where we always hoped we'd be able to retire. The move helped us tremendously, because rather than dwell on missing them, we were able to focus on new horizons. For a variety of reasons, the move really helped put badly needed wind in our sales.
I took a job here to close out my career and keep the medical coverage going until I was able to retire at 59-1/2 years old, and the new job was somewhat interesting as well. Unfortunately it turned out to be quite the roller coaster ride that is a story in-and-of itself, but the greatest reward about that move was to allow my wife to get out from under a toxic work environment that was literally killing her. Soon after I got my job here, she quit hers and hasn't had to work for an employer since.
Fortunately our two kids are doing very well too, and we count our blessings every day for our good fortune along these lines. Knowing all the while things can change as they always do in life, at any moment. Meanwhile it's "live life to the fullest" best we are able. One day at a time best we are able.
Remind me LM, you are in California right? I seem to remember something about the Pelican British pub in Marin Country. Does my memory serve me right?
California, yes, where I've been living all my life except the four years we were in Hawaii where our second was born. We now live close to the water along the Monterey Bay and couldn't be happier as this is the spot we always wanted to retire to if we were able. Sometimes dreams do come true. (Well actually there was a part of my life as an infant that I lived in Colombia but that was for a relatively short time that I can't remember).
The kids and their significant others met us for a birthday dinner at the Pelican Inn as well. Since they too live not too far away in the SF Bay Area. That stay was a real treat, but my wife doesn't seem to have the appreciation for old stuff like I do. She loves "classic, well kept, pristine" furnishings and architecture, but not so much the old weathered and aged rickety stuff that I tend to appreciate a good deal more. (Perhaps something to do with my mother who used to have an antique store full of old English and French antiques). My wife and I honeymooned in the Cotswolds in England, and it seems we may be going back at the end of this year.
Good memory! Thanks for reminding me of these fond memories as well...
Perhaps a good note on which to sign off from this forum this morning. Cheers to you and yours!
California, yes, where I've been living all my life except the four years we were in Hawaii where our second was born. We now live close to the water along the Monterey Bay and couldn't be happier as this is the spot we always wanted to retire to if we were able. Sometimes dreams do come true. (Well actually there was a part of my life as an infant that I lived in Colombia but that was for a relatively short time that I can't remember).
The kids and their significant others met us for a birthday dinner at the Pelican Inn as well. Since they too live not too far away in the SF Bay Area. That stay was a real treat, but my wife doesn't seem to have the appreciation for old stuff like I do. She loves "classic, well kept, pristine" furnishings and architecture, but not so much the old rickety stuff that I tend to appreciate a good deal more. (Perhaps something to do with my mother who used to have an antique store full of old English and French antiques). My wife and I honeymooned in the Cotswolds in England, and it seems we may be going back at the end of this year.
Good memory! Thanks for reminding me of these fond memories as well...
Perhaps a good note on which to sign off from this forum this morning. Cheers to you and yours!
Monterey is an absolutely wonderful place. By far my favorite place in CA. I was in the East Bay Area for 3 years. I hope to retire to somewhere similar. We lived in a place called Whitstable in the UK which is basically Monterey in the UK. I left about half my heart back there. I absolutely loved it. Who knows, we might move back there some day. Currently we are trying to find a place near Sag Harbor on long island which is another very similar sort of place. All except for the boats -in Whitstable they are fishing boats, in Sag they have been replaced by billionaires yachts and the property is about 4 times the price, which is very sad IMHO.
Nice post LearnMe ^^^
I was born in Marin County in the 50s — parents built a rustic home in Woodacre. Later my father got a job teaching at Stanford so we moved to Palo Alto, but we still had many connections and adventures in Marin/Mill Valley/Muir Beach&Woods — haven’t been there for over 25 years now — hope it still has some of that same magic and didn’t get ruined.
I'm definitely not wishing their lives away at all, but I almost feel guilty to admit that I'm looking forward to devoting a bit of time to myself.
I hope it works out for you. I, too, had the dream of tending to myself and my interests for a change.
But among other things, my stepson kept boomeranging. I made 3 or 4 trips during his undergrad period to metaphorically scrape him off the ground, withdraw him to spare him the incompletes, and give him a year or two to with us to decompress and have some therapy and then send him back. He got his degree with a good GPA in the end, but it took him 7 years and he has been unable to move beyond that. His ADD, autism and social anxiety mean that I am not only a father figure but an employer. I have found work he can do and do well but I can only get about 10 hours a week out of him as that's as far as his ability to mentally focus takes him. Lower paying jobs that take less mental focus he can probably do half-time but then he feels even more like a loser than he already does.
At this point we are just hoping that we can adjust his meds, get him a life coach, and that he will properly launch some fine day. But there are a lot of parents who have it even worse. They worry even more than we do of what will become of a child when they are gone. My stepson is of wonderful character and bright and has potential. There is hope. OTOH he is 30 and not getting traction yet.
I'm definitely delaying retirement at least by a year because of all this. Probably more. Maybe alot more. His biological father is starting to flake out, he used to help with medical expenses but is chafing about it now, and he has not paid off the last of the student loans despite agreeing in the divorce to pay all higher education expenses.
Meanwhile, perversely, one of my kids died and the other stepchild has estranged herself from us for reasons we can't guess and she won't discuss, which has produced knock-on effects for my wife especially. My other kid is 600 miles away and seems to think the highways only run in one direction.
So if you get all 3 of yours into and through college and they manage to build their own lives, thank your lucky stars. So far as a couple we're batting 2 for 2 although the 2 that made it we also aren't as close to as we had hoped. Still, I suppose we should be grateful.
I was always an "18 and out" kind of Dad but in the past couple of decades I've come to think getting higher education and a decent job without being saddled with massive debt is getting to be kind of unicorn-ish anymore. You have to be heavy on grants and scholarships I think, or able to pay as you go. Frankly I would be steering my kids more in the direction of trade apprenticeships if they had the slightest interest in it. Higher education is getting to be quite the scam.
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