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But, it sounds like you are stating that they must have a thorough knowledge of Judaism and it’s practices before they can even be considered for conversion...
a person learns before deciding to convert, they learn more while they are going through the conversion process, and they continue to learn after they have converted. Regarding the statements made by the OP in this thread, if someone does not believe in the Creator and has low regard for religion, then it is not accurate for them to say they "can always convert to Judaism."
No, that is not what i said.
Don't put words in my mouth. Thank you.
What are you getting at?
What he's getting at is that, if one decides to accept Judaism (or example by marrying a Jew), then after a talk with a Rabbi, and he approves it and gives a few basics, they can convert, and then the long process of learning starts. Of course, if they are already familiar with it, that's a help, but, from all I've heard (and I am no expert), not being familiar with it is not a barrier to conversion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel
a person learns before deciding to convert, they learn more while they are going through the conversion process, and they continue to learn after they have converted. Regarding the statements made by the OP in this thread, if someone does not believe in the Creator and has low regard for religion, then it is not accurate for them to say they "can always convert to Judaism."
You are getting rather evasive about all this.
Probably someone who declares they don't believe in God wouldn't satisfy a Rabbi. But Richard pointed it out, a Rabbi would have to be convinced they were sincere in their willingness to convert and would need to make sure they understand the basics before he gave approval, but your implication that they have to be substantially integrated into it before they are accepted for conversion seems to be wrong.
Of course, some branches of Judaism might be more 'accepting' than others, but I gather that's the norm. And not seeking converts is nothing to do with it, of course.
Jews don't advertise for converts, unlike many, if not most other religions.
They have something in common with Jehovah Witnesses, in that each sect considers themselves apart from all others and revel in that apart-ness. Both groups feel their god, or g-d, likes them best.
I don't know whether HaShem loves the Jews more than any of His other children, but I do believe that HaShem expects more from us. Believe me, it's not easy being a Jew. Those 613 rules barely scratch the surface of what our religion demands of us.
people can and do learn whether or not they go through the conversion process.
So, what if someone knew a little something about Judaism and wanted to convert?...According to you that person must have a thorough knowledge of Judaism and the practice thereof in order to be considered...
What he's getting at is that, if one decides to accept Judaism (or example by marrying a Jew), then after a talk with a Rabbi, and he approves it and gives a few basics, they can convert, and then the long process of learning starts. Of course, if they are already familiar with it, that's a help, but, from all I've heard (and I am no expert), not being familiar with it is not a barrier to conversion.
Yes, he does. But surely you know, Richard, that a rabbi gives more than just "a few basics" during the approximately one to two years of study under a rabbi's guidance that is required prior to the completion of one's conversion to Judaism. After which, the potential convert must appear before a Beit Din -- a court of three rabbinical judges who will question him/her to determine whether he/she has dutifully learned and understands what is necessary for becoming a Jew. This is followed by submergence in the mikvah for both men and women (the convert must have memorized the Shehecheyanu blessing in Hebrew in order to recite it during the immersion ceremony. Additionally for men there is the brit milah. Even if a male convert has already been circumcised from birth as part of the regular and secular hospital routine that is done in America, he will still need to undergo a symbolic circumcision that entails the drawing of some blood.
It's not easy becoming a Jew.
I hope my reply has answered enough questions on this subject so that the original focus of this topic can resume.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 09-28-2020 at 04:21 AM..
I don't know whether HaShem loves the Jews more than any of His other children, but I do believe that HaShem expects more from us. Believe me, it's not easy being a Jew. Those 613 rules barely scratch the surface of what our religion demands of us.
I know. I've known quite a few Jews and can understand why most outsiders are not drawn to the religion.
"Conversion to Judaism is a process governed by Jewish religious law. Conversions are overseen by a religious court, which must be convinced that the convert:
"is sincere
is converting for the right reasons
is converting of their own free will
has a thorough knowledge of Jewish faith and practices
will live an observant Jewish life
because the person believes the faith and culture of the Jewish people is right for them
"the convert must have an overpowering wish to join the Jewish people and share in their destiny, and be committed to loving God and following His wishes as expressed in the Torah. There is no other reason that can enable a person to truly enter the covenant between God and the Jewish people, and do it freely, without reservation, forever, and to the exclusion of all other faiths." https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/relig...nversion.shtml
The posting history of the OP does not demonstrate the above.
It seems you are quite familiar with my posts in this forum. I know you are. I am familiar with your comments and perspective as well, so it is a little curious and surprising to me that you would judge as you do, but again we think very differently generally speaking, so perhaps I shouldn't be surprised.
You obviously don't appreciate my simple want to review the 613 commandments in a way I have never done before, despite all my earlier study of all the major religions. I'm still learning. You assume much that normally you are always wanting to explain no one should assume about another person they don't know. What does it "take" that I don't have to consider all 613 commandments in the way I choose? You may totally disagree or even object to my efforts and comments along these lines. Others may feel entirely different than either of us by the process, but I'm not here to please anyone necessarily. Certainly not you individually, though I do appreciate the exchange of different opinion.
If continuing this thread helps some appreciate Judaism, so be it. If not, so be that too. I don't think any thread is required to promote or achieve the approval of anyone participating in this forum. Just that we stick to the rules. My opinion(s) about religion up to now and reasons for them will either be revisted by way of this thread, reinforced or perhaps just expanded. I don't know, but if you don't care to be a part, of course that's entirely your prerogative as well. I encourage your ongoing comments regardless your perspective or agenda, but if participating isn't for you, I totally get that too.
All the best to you regardless what you choose to do, but if you do comment, please do expect the exchange to be honest, civil and straight-forward. Just as I hope anyone who chooses to join in will respect as a goal here as well.
there are a variety of reasons a person might have for wanting to convert to Judaism. Some of the reasons are not valid, and for that reason not everyone is accepted as a candidate for conversion. Part of the process is honest self-examination of a person's reasons, motivation, and intention in seeking to convert. Judaism does not seek converts.
Of course to be honest I don't currently have reasons or want to convert to Judaism. No more than I have reasons or want to convert to any religion. I just tossed that reason out there as one of many one might review these commandments (or laws) as I am doing. I explained my interest in my opening comment, and I've further briefly explained since then. Not sure why I should need to, but I'm more than glad to be honest about my interests along these lines either way as well.
I am glad to add that if the exchange by others in this thread is indication of how it will continue with respect to some very interesting comments so far, I'd say this thread "has legs!" Very pleased to find others interested too, in whatever way they are inspired to share their opinion. Please do!
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