What leads to all the intolerance and ignorance? (pray, beliefs, verses)
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I can't. I can only go by what resonates with what was given me. Nothing they ever said resonated with me. It all seemed so elitist and violent to me so I thought I was the wicked one. I'll tell you a couple stories about "the spirit" when I was in that religion:
I went to a high school small academic competition when I was a junior. I ended up making it all the to Nationals. I signed up to take the test in economics even though I had never read anything about economics but, for some reason, I did well at the state level. When I got in that room and looked down at that test I didn't know any of the answers but it was multiple guess so hey, whatever. Then something clicked in my mind and I saw all the distractors fall away. I ended up finishing the test within minutes. I won 1st place. I had been treated fairly well by my fellow classmates but still i was the "JW girl" and couldn't go to their houses or parties. I was so proud that God had used me (even though I was wicked) to show the entire class that a JW was someone to be respected. I was always told every little thing I did reflected on God so I had better not screw up. When the elder's found out about it I was taken in the back room and reproved for bringing attention to myself because I made the paper. After they reproved me I went out into the hall and they had an hour long "special needs talk" about what I had done and "marked" me. As I sat there listening to what they were saying about me I believed it was God who helped me win that competition and this was he way of telling me it was his way of helping me accept I wasn't worthy.
Then, this is how I ended up getting out of the group. I left home at 19 and would have been in a new congregation. Before I had ever even been there they assigned me a part at one of the meetings. I knew I was dead meat but the time was so short I was was going to stay in to save as many people as possible before the end came. A couple of hours before I was due to show up at the Kingdom hall for the first time some lady rear ends my car out of no where. There was some mix up with my insurance so I had to deal with the police, my insurance guy and I had no car to get there. I thought it was God preventing me from going as to keep the congregation clean from wicked people like me.
I was on my knees on a good day. Most days I was lower. That's the thing Rbbi, the "spirit" held me up until I could stand. It doesn't want me on my knees or it could have left me there.
I'm just sitting here shaking my head. I can't believe the level of self-serving controlling spirit wickedness you were subjected to. I wish I could have been your friend then.
On your knees to Him as Lord of you, is different than on your knees to the whims of men. That's all I'm saying. Peace
I can't. I can only go by what resonates with what was given me. Nothing they ever said resonated with me. It all seemed so elitist and violent to me so I thought I was the wicked one. I'll tell you a couple stories about "the spirit" when I was in that religion:
I went to a high school small academic competition when I was a junior. I ended up making it all the to Nationals. I signed up to take the test in economics even though I had never read anything about economics but, for some reason, I did well at the state level. When I got in that room and looked down at that test I didn't know any of the answers but it was multiple guess so hey, whatever. Then something clicked in my mind and I saw all the distractors fall away. I ended up finishing the test within minutes. I won 1st place. I had been treated fairly well by my fellow classmates but still i was the "JW girl" and couldn't go to their houses or parties. I was so proud that God had used me (even though I was wicked) to show the entire class that a JW was someone to be respected. I was always told every little thing I did reflected on God so I had better not screw up. When the elder's found out about it I was taken in the back room and reproved for bringing attention to myself because I made the paper. After they reproved me I went out into the hall and they had an hour long "special needs talk" about what I had done and "marked" me. As I sat there listening to what they were saying about me I believed it was God who helped me win that competition and this was he way of telling me it was his way of helping me accept I wasn't worthy.
Then, this is how I ended up getting out of the group. I left home at 19 and would have been in a new congregation. Before I had ever even been there they assigned me a part at one of the meetings. I knew I was dead meat but the time was so short I was was going to stay in to save as many people as possible before the end came. A couple of hours before I was due to show up at the Kingdom hall for the first time some lady rear ends my car out of no where. There was some mix up with my insurance so I had to deal with the police, my insurance guy and I had no car to get there. I thought it was God preventing me from going as to keep the congregation clean from wicked people like me.
I was on my knees on a good day. Most days I was lower. That's the thing Rbbi, the "spirit" held me up until I could stand. It doesn't want me on my knees or it could have left me there.
To be honest, I'm surprised that a JW would have been allowed to participate in something like that. IN MY EXPERIENCE (not saying it's universally true), but in my experience, JWs have always tended to be rather reclusive, and don't participate in things like that.
Having said that, I'm sorry. I really am. No one deserves to be treated as you were.
If a person was empathetic, compassionate and loving, they simply could not become a fundamentalist as an adult. There are certain requirements (and lack of) for card-carrying membership in a fundie club - Christian, Muslim or Whatever-ism:
1 - They must be black & white thinkers. Nuance escapes them.
2 - They must be terrified of their god.
3 - They believe their god hates. Therefore, it's a-ok for them to hate as well.
4 - They're totally cool with their god killing all and sundry with impunity and they're so terrified of it that they refer to it as "loving" and "kind" and "just." (Ever hear of Stockholm Syndrome?)
Now, there are many poor souls who ARE compassionate etc. but were indoctrinated into a fundie sect from an early age. The only hope for a cure is being brave enough to question some of the idiocies in their "holy" book.
I have tremendous admiration for L8, Pleroo, pcamps and others who found the courage to question. And it took even more courage for them to realize the answers didn't compute and to begin their difficult journey away from what they believed for much of their lives to be The Truth.
But if a person embraces fundie-think as an adult, I know everything I need to know about them. They are a bane unto my spirit.
To be honest, I'm surprised that a JW would have been allowed to participate in something like that. IN MY EXPERIENCE (not saying it's universally true), but in my experience, JWs have always tended to be rather reclusive, and don't participate in things like that.
Having said that, I'm sorry. I really am. No one deserves to be treated as you were.
Thank you and you are correct. I couldn't believe it myself. The first few levels of competition where done during school hours. I hadn't actually joined DECCA but my class schedules meant I was eligible to compete. I just kept advancing and I think it snowballed. I wasn't allowed to compete at all my senior year at all, which dismayed the teachers. I had to make up an excuse. I couldn't tell them the real reason or that would but God in a bad light. Thank you for listening to my story.
I'm just sitting here shaking my head. I can't believe the level of self-serving controlling spirit wickedness you were subjected to. I wish I could have been your friend then.
On your knees to Him as Lord of you, is different than on your knees to the whims of men. That's all I'm saying. Peace
I would have liked that too Rbbi. You don't have to feel bad for what they did. They actually did me a favor. It was totally worth it anyway. I live near St. Paul,MN and the competition was in Houston, TX. For 5 glorious days I was just L8, not L8 the JW. I got to ride in a RV with worldly boys and girls and just be a regular kid. We got to stay in a hotel room, use the swimming pool together, run through the halls, steal the luggage cart and use it for an illicit purpose and I could just be a 17 year old and not an "ambassador for the Lord". The best part was one of the seniors that went with rode my bus and always bullied my little brother. He had a brother several years older that used to bully my brother too. They would hit him, mock him, sit on his head and I couldn't do anything to protect him. Both this senior and his older brother were the "smart+popular+jocks"and although they didn't bully me because I was a pretty girl, they talked down to me. The older brother had placed in the top 5 in econ a few years earlier. This senior boy was expected to do the same. Nothing was expected of me because I'm the weird (but nice) cult girl. How they did the awards was they call the top 10 scores up onto the stage. Both me and this boy were called up. Then they started with 10th place and we accepted our awards and left the stage. He left the stage right around 3 or 4, I can't remember. Me taking his award was one of the things that lead me to believe it was God's work that I should take that award because I didn't even place in the other tests I was more knowledgeable about. Then everyone left and it was just me. After I got my award the accounting teacher put his arm around me and told me he was proud of me and just kept saying "pretty impressive kid". Someone told me the other teacher with us started crying. Nothing they said to me could take that experience away from me. It's locked in my memory and I wonder if I could have survived without it.
I'm wondering if the root comes down to fear. Fear that one's religious ideology may be wrong. Fear that one may become uncomfortable if they take off their lenses and look at things from other perspectives.
Anyway, curious to hear what others think.
The roots of most things boil down to one natural phenomenon, self-preservation.
Until one reaches what Maslow called self-actualization most are trapped in the primitive mind set of self-preservation, no matter the ilk.
I would have liked that too Rbbi. You don't have to feel bad for what they did. They actually did me a favor. It was totally worth it anyway. I live near St. Paul,MN and the competition was in Houston, TX. For 5 glorious days I was just L8, not L8 the JW. I got to ride in a RV with worldly boys and girls and just be a regular kid. We got to stay in a hotel room, use the swimming pool together, run through the halls, steal the luggage cart and use it for an illicit purpose and I could just be a 17 year old and not an "ambassador for the Lord". The best part was one of the seniors that went with rode my bus and always bullied my little brother. He had a brother several years older that used to bully my brother too. They would hit him, mock him, sit on his head and I couldn't do anything to protect him. Both this senior and his older brother were the "smart+popular+jocks"and although they didn't bully me because I was a pretty girl, they talked down to me. The older brother had placed in the top 5 in econ a few years earlier. This senior boy was expected to do the same. Nothing was expected of me because I'm the weird (but nice) cult girl. How they did the awards was they call the top 10 scores up onto the stage. Both me and this boy were called up. Then they started with 10th place and we accepted our awards and left the stage. He left the stage right around 3 or 4, I can't remember. Me taking his award was one of the things that lead me to believe it was God's work that I should take that award because I didn't even place in the other tests I was more knowledgeable about. Then everyone left and it was just me. After I got my award the accounting teacher put his arm around me and told me he was proud of me and just kept saying "pretty impressive kid". Someone told me the other teacher with us started crying. Nothing they said to me could take that experience away from me. It's locked in my memory and I wonder if I could have survived without it.
I am truly thankful then that you had at least that experience to sustain you through what I can only call the systemic destruction and devaluation of a young person's worth. You are more precious than rubies to your real Father, more valuable than gold or silver, a princess destined to wear a crown. THAT, is your true image; embrace it. The WHOLE of the book is written to you, a captive soul, a true Cinderella story with a loving Prince, to be written in your heart. Peace
But G-d was smarter yet-
He drew a cross to square both our debt.
I Like that one.
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