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Truly, in your case, the blind leading the blind. Either you have not listened to what people have told you on this (hundreds (thousands?) of posts worth), or you are playing dumb.
For you to ask the question "How is it any more moral to treat people with respect than to rape and pillage?" shows just how little you think for yourself.
We all know that you would rape and pillage if it weren't for God, but the large majority of us have a moral compass outside of a dusty old book.
I just think it is funny that you claim others can not have morals with your God,
The mere fact that you made this statement proves you don't have a clue what I'm actually trying to say. I've never said that atheists can't be moral. Do you realize that? I've never said they can't have morality.
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yet we prove you wrong all the time. You claim that your opinion (which is all your belief is by the way) is more valid, because it is indeed not your opinion, but the opinion of men long dead. It makes no sense.
If all we have is opinions, then no one has any opinion more valid than anything else. I absolutely agree with you.
I have as yet to be told by anyone how the atheist that "does it for one another" is any more moral in their worldview than the guy that rapes and pillages. What determines that judgement?
It would be more truthful if you simply stated that you refuse to believe anything about morality that does not credit your God with it. Sorry, you may truly believe what you said however it has been explained to you various times however your requirement that there needs to be a God for morality to exist just means you automatically dismiss every and all explanations given to you. Maybe deliberate, maybe not aware of what you are doing but that has been the history of morality without a God explained to you.
I have no belief in any gods and think that rape is absolutely terrible but it would be a waste of time explaining it to you as you already have it set in your mind that one cannot be moral without believing in your God and nothing can contradict your set belief..
It is sad that because I don't believe in your God that you are under the impression that I cannot have morals and would just as easily rape a child as help an elderly woman across the street however there is absolutely nothing I could do to change your harden view of non believers. In spite of your preconceived views I will continue not raping, murdering or being a bigot.
The mere fact that you made this statement proves you don't have a clue what I'm actually trying to say. I've never said that atheists can't be moral. Do you realize that? I've never said they can't have morality.
If all we have is opinions, then no one has any opinion more valid than anything else. I absolutely agree with you.
Then I might agree with you (depending on what you mean by opinions)...if you also believe that a god's moral code is nothing more than an opinion.
I don't like the term opinion though, because although I suppose it's technically accurate, there are real concrete things ethics are traditionally rooted in and our opinions don't change those things.
Presumably, it evolved to spread my genetics, or was some kind of side effect of something that evolved to spread my genetics, or parts of it were mutations from radiation or DNA received from viruses or something.
It came from nature and humanity's journey to modern times.
My parents. I was taught growing up to be a good person. I was taught to treat others like I wanted to be treated, to treat people as equals, to be nice, to help those in need.... etc etc. I think you get the point.
And before you ask, no, my parents were not religious. I grew up in a household where we didn't go to church or say the blessing or anything like that. On Sunday's, I usually went fishing with my dad (he loved having a daughter who liked to fish!), or watched NFL football (he loved that too!), or sat on the porch and looked out into the field behind our house and watched the deer while drinking coffee, or something similar to those things.
Also, I learned from experience as well. I learned what things made me feel crummy and what things made me feel good. I learned that I liked making people happy and hated making them sad. I learned that I did not like to get in trouble or to cause problems. I learned a lot of things about morality and ethics without needing your God to do so.
Last edited by ImissThe90's; 03-22-2017 at 08:48 AM..
Reason: spelling
The mere fact that you made this statement proves you don't have a clue what I'm actually trying to say. I've never said that atheists can't be moral. Do you realize that? I've never said they can't have morality.
No, you just claim there is no morality without God, and since atheists are without God, by default, you are claiming they can not have morality. Let me explain it...
Atheist=Without God
No God=No Morals
Atheist=No Morals
Maybe that isn't what you mean, but it is what you are saying. In fact, you are saying there is no such thing as morals, unless they align with your beliefs. Everyone else has no morals, and no reason to think anything is moral.
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Originally Posted by Vizio
If all we have is opinions, then no one has any opinion more valid than anything else. I absolutely agree with you.
Except you would be wrong. You are right in that all we have is opinion, but there are certainly opinions that are more valid than others. If it is my opinion that that the guy on the street corner wearing no shoes and playing the trumpet is really George Clooney, and your opinion is that it is not, then your opinion would be more valid, no?
The very simple fact of it all is this..... Morality is simply what is good for the masses. Let me explain....
Things like murder, assault, stealing, adultery, lying, cheating, etc are not good for the masses, so therefore they are not moral. Very simple.
Things like treating people with respect, not hurting others, helping others, etc, are good for the masses, so therefore they are moral.
If you can't see that, then you should really get out of your church building and into the real world. Join us in reality.
My parents. I was taught growing up to be a good person. I was taught to treat others like I wanted to be treated, to treat people as equals, to be nice, to help those in need.... etc etc. I think you get the point.
And before you ask, no, my parents were not religious. I grew up in a household where we didn't go to church or say the blessing or anything like that. On Sunday's, I usually went fishing with my dad (he loved having a daughter who liked to fish!), or watched NFL football (he loved that too!), or sat on the porch and looked out into the field behind our house and watched the deer while drinking coffee, or something similar to those things.
Also, I learned from experience as well. I learned what things made me feel crummy and what things made me feel good. I learned that I liked making people happy and hated making them sad. I learned that I did not like to get in trouble or to cause problems. I learned a lot of things about morality and ethics without needing your God to do so.
That too. Social teachings and environment are a big part of it.
No, you just claim there is no morality without God, and since atheists are without God, by default, you are claiming they can not have morality. Let me explain it...
Atheist=Without God
No God=No Morals
Atheist=No Morals
Maybe that isn't what you mean, but it is what you are saying. In fact, you are saying there is no such thing as morals, unless they align with your beliefs. Everyone else has no morals, and no reason to think anything is moral.
Except you would be wrong. You are right in that all we have is opinion, but there are certainly opinions that are more valid than others. If it is my opinion that that the guy on the street corner wearing no shoes and playing the trumpet is really George Clooney, and your opinion is that it is not, then your opinion would be more valid, no?
I've NEVER suggested that atheists can't be good, moral people. I would challenge you to provide a link to any post of me making such a statement.
What I HAVE said is that while an atheist can do things we consider to be moral, or that God has defined as moral, the atheist has no way to objectively identify what is and is not morality.
The difference between morality and George Clooney is that it's easy to identify who is and is not George Clooney. We know what George Clooney is and is not, who and who he is/not. Do you have a similar way of judging what morality is and isn't?
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The very simple fact of it all is this..... Morality is simply what is good for the masses. Let me explain....
Things like murder, assault, stealing, adultery, lying, cheating, etc are not good for the masses, so therefore they are not moral. Very simple.
Things like treating people with respect, not hurting others, helping others, etc, are good for the masses, so therefore they are moral.
If you can't see that, then you should really get out of your church building and into the real world. Join us in reality.
There you go again begging the question. That is the closest that I've seen anyone coming to defining morality. You get that certain things are wrong. That is good. Now I'm asking how you can know that? WHY would we want to use your standard of "if it hurts it's bad" morality? WHY would we assume that? I have yet to see anyone answer that simple question.
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