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So, do you thinks things like that are just coincidence or not?
You are describing, not coincidence nearly so much as availability bias.
Our brains are best understood not so much as analog computers, as highly optimized pattern matching engines.
In your example of deciding to get a puppy, that you see a "free puppies" sign at just one point in the ensuing day -- a sign you might well have not paid the slightest attention to if you weren't thinking about getting a puppy -- it is not a coincidence so much as a single incident out of countless incidents in your day that you were motivated to pay attention to.
In your negative example of the doomed vacation, that was a pattern MIS-match with the desired vacation experience that might prompt you to cancel.
My wife has few annoying habits compared to me (just ask her, she'll tell you) but one that she DOES have is the use of the phrase, "it was (not) meant to be". It is just a verbal shorthand for "it (did not) work out as I'd hoped". But it illustrates how we seize upon events and give them selective attention and then call that "coincidence" when in fact we manufactured it in between our ears. It is also an example of the tendency for us to assign agency to things when there's no basis to (something can't be "meant" except by some controlling / orchestrating intentional agent).
To clarify, yes, I know that random things and coincidences happen to most people every day, but what I am talking about is when things happen in such a way that in hindsight, someone might think that something was just meant or not meant to be -- similar to "intuition in hindsight", but not exactly.
And, also, yes, I do know that not ALL Christians think that God/Jesus is personally responsible for someone's trivial life events, but as the saying, goes, I wish I had a dollar for every time I have heard, "Well, God meant for that to happen."
Also, re: Littlewood. I am not talking about miracles, but only about things that appear, in hindsight, to have happened for a reason. Although I have read many accounts of so-called miracles, I am always skeptical and often at least a little bit cynical, too.
And, finally, I am not offended by gospel -- although, admittedly, I am offended by people who insist their religion and what they believe is the only truth. And, btw, how can someone hate something that they deny (or at least very strongly doubt) even exists?
How do you mean "meant to be." If we go back to your initial example, thinking up puppies then seeing a sign for free puppies, why would the results of this be 'meant to be' when the results of thinking of puppies and not finding them be entirely unimportant?
And yes, you can hate things you do not think exists. According to the ideas of radical Muslims, there are no non-Muslims. Everyone is born Muslim, then strays away due to perversion, as such, Jews and Christians are not just Jews and Christians; they're apostates and ISIS hates them and would have them killed. That said, rejecting somethings existence does not mean you hate it. It just means you can.
I'm an agnostic. I do not believe God's can have his hand in every last human being on this earth (if you believe in God). Coincidence and circumstance is just as they are defined. If someone has more of these in their lifetimes than others, does that hold a spiritual meaning? Personally I don't think so. Every day is full of infinite possibilities. If you make a wrong turn while driving, does that change the course of your entire life going forward? As an agnostic I believe life is an intricate and complicated game to be played. I don't dwell if there was a deeper meaning to an outcome.
To clarify, yes, I know that random things and coincidences happen to most people every day, but what I am talking about is when things happen in such a way that in hindsight, someone might think that something was just meant or not meant to be -- similar to "intuition in hindsight", but not exactly.
Well that is why there is a saying, "hindsight is always 20/20" meaning that things seem clearer after the fact than before it. The primary reason for this is that when looking back on something, we already know the outcome. For example about a month before he died of sudden unexplained cardiac arrest, I helped my son move to a new apartment. I noticed he seemed unusually winded and had to lie down for a bit to recover himself. In hindsight it seems plausible that I was witnessing a prelude to the undiagnosed arrhythmia that later killed him. But I could just as well have been witnessing an overweight person performing unusual exertions on a hot August afternoon. Or random happenstance. Or my son enacting a bit of contrived drama to buy himself a few minutes out of doing his share of the work. Or the passing effects of a mild virus. Or any number of other things actually.
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Originally Posted by whocares811
And, also, yes, I do know that not ALL Christians think that God/Jesus is personally responsible for someone's trivial life events, but as the saying, goes, I wish I had a dollar for every time I have heard, "Well, God meant for that to happen."
And this is instructive, not so much about the particular propensity of Christians, as of humans generally. I have noticed that Muslims, Buddhists, atheists and so forth have variations on this, plugging in a different deity name or none at all. We want / need / tend to see (anti)patterns. It is second nature. And also second nature is to weave events into narratives. We are story-telling creatures.
The reason for this is that natural selection has tended to produce it. The keen ability to quickly see pattern (mis)matches and to put them into narrative contexts was key to our early survival as a species in a world of predators and natural disasters and ever-changing weather. It is more than anything, unfortunately, a hinderance to the life of mind and to rational discourse and indeed to well-adapted enjoyment of 21st century / urban living. That is why the scientific method was developed, to help us follow evidence wherever it leads, even when it leads in directions that make us uncomfortable or that disconfirm our assumptions and beliefs.
I have learned to distrust first-blush "gut" instinct as it is so often wrong. I don't entirely discount it, in that it gets a vote so to speak along with other inputs to my decision-making process, and in some contexts it even gets more than one vote. But what seems to be true is so often either not true at all, or at least overdetermined. We should therefore not be so impressed with seeming synchronicities.
If I am about to go on a vacation, but then I have trouble getting time off, I have an unexpected large repair bill the week before I am set to go (meaning less spending money), and then I develop a bad headache at the last minute, but I decide to go anyway -- I will end up having a lousy time and being sorry I went.
Stuff like that happens all the time. I call it normal life.
But it is worthwhile to try to enjoy the good things in spite of obstacles you may encounter. Don't worry about a repair bill when you're on a vacation.
we can say what we want, everything is "guided" by whats around it. That's where all lines of logic start or we are just making stuff up to suit our needs.
we can say what we want, everything is "guided" by whats around it. That's where all lines of logic start or we are just making stuff up to suit our needs.
I agree with this. I think some people are just more in tune and aware of it than others. I tend to be pretty obtuse, but even I notice it from time to time.
I agree with this. I think some people are just more in tune and aware of it than others. I tend to be pretty obtuse, but even I notice it from time to time.
Your early indoctrination can be attributed to many things, Pleroo, but NOT obtuseness. Your perspicacity and insights are awesome.
If we don't know how a cell works it all looks unguided. Our life events are as unguided as materials moving through a cell are unguided. But that's a position of ignorance. "guided" doesn't mean we all get what we want or get to where we should be. That's wishful thinking. And denying "alive" because we don't get what we want is immature.
You are right pleroo, many people can't understand the interactions around them as "alive". Anymore than some proteins in us not understanding it's "life" is our "alive".
for having no training you understand as much as anybody. The discoveries in the last 5-8 years seal the deal shut. Its more rational to agree to "something" over personal meaning (or need) for "god" of the bible (any religion) or "lack of belief in anything".
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