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And, although they are older religions, these do not seem to be so easily at odds with science. In fact, elements of Hinduism seem to bolster certain newer concepts that are tossed about these days.
Just my own opinion, so please do not take this as a personal criticism, but there are fundamental concepts in the majority religion in my area that I find very difficult to swallow. People tell me they 'compartmentalize', believing in these things when it is convenient, but otherwise going about their lives ignoring them.
But I do not see humanity as cattle, mulling about the planet's surface, picking and choosing expediant religious ideas and mindlessly mouthing platitudes. I sort of see 'us' as being part of a deeper reality, something that our physical being and short-termed consciousness 'pops' out of, and then retreats back into, from time to time.
The real nature of that reality is significant. Both religion and science should be proper ways of exploring it. As such, religion, at least from this viewpoint, should be an adventure, a part of our daily life, and not something religated only to the old and ill, in their fear of death.
But sometimes there is little recourse for those with a religious inclination in the west than our traditional establishments, and adherents are put in the position to just mouth acceptance of concepts that they do not agree with, or because they dislike being hypocrates, brainwash themselves into thinking they believe such peculiarities.
What a wonderful, thought provoking post.
"Wise men attain salvation
Through their own patient search
And the inner vision and adherence to the
Knowledge acquired"
Generally, I think it is a mistake to give up our brains to another person, although there is probably no blanket statement that applies to everything and everyone.
If we do this, who is making 'progress' on our path, we or them?
Who has been given our life to live?
And, often, when people are willing to submit to the will of another, there are unscrupulous individuals more than willing to take advantage.
This happens in every religion.
It is my thought that we are born into an environment/body because there are lessons there for us to learn to deal with. But, then, the lesson might be one of surrender. lol
A Hindu wedding celebration can be short or last for days.
Here are the main parts of a very basic Hindu wedding:
Traditionally, the bride wears a red or red and white sari. The sari should be draped modestly over her hair. She wears much jewelry and her hands and feet are decorated with mehndi. Some say that you can tell how well a new bride is being treated by her in-laws from how long it takes for the mehndi to wear off. Others say it signifies how much her husband loves her. The groom wears a kafni (long shirt extending to the knees) with pijamo (leggings) or dhoti (sort of an overgrown loincloth). The groom may also wear a turban, depending on family traditions.
Vara Satkaarah - Reception of the bridegroom and his kinsmen at the entrance gate of the wedding place (normally outside under a canopy)l where the officiating priest (or pandit - a ly elder) chants a few mantras and the bride's mother blesses the groom with rice and trefoil and applies tilak of vermilion and turmeric powder on his forehead.
Madhuparka Ceremony - Reception of the bridegroom at the altar and bestowing of presents by the bride's father.
Kanya Dan - The bride's father gives away his daughter to the groom amidst the chanting of sacred mantras.
Vivah-Homa - The sacred fire ceremony ascertaining that all auspicious undertakings are begun in an atmosphere of purity and spirituality.
Pani-Grahan - After the parents have announced that they bless this marriage, the groom takes the right hand of the bride in his left hand and accepts her as his lawfully wedded wife. The vows (many versions) are something like:
-I take you into my heart as my wife/husband.
Pratigna-Karan - The couple walk round the fire, the bride leading, and take solemn vows of loyalty, steadfast love and life-long fidelity to each other.
Shila Arohan - The mother of the bride assists her to step onto a stone slab and counsels her to prepare herself for a new life.
Laja-Homah - Puffed rice offered as oblations into the sacred fire by the bride while keeping the palms of her hands over those of the groom.
Parikrama or Pradakshina or Mangal Fera - The couple circles the sacred fire seven times. This aspect of the ceremony legalizes the marriage according to the Hindu Marriage Act as well custom.
Saptapadi - Marriage knot symbolized by tying one end of the groom's scarf with the bride's dress. Then they take seven steps representing nourishment, strength, prosperity, happiness, progeny, long life and harmony and understanding, respectively.
-Let us take the first steps to provide for our household a nourishing and pure diet, avoiding those foods injurious to healthy living. Let us take the second step to develop physical, mental and spiritual powers. Let us take the third step, to increase our wealth by righteous means and proper use. Let us take the fourth step to acquire knowledge, happiness and harmony by mutual love and trust. Let us take the fifth step, so that we be blessed with strong, virtuous and heroic children. Let us take the sixth step, for self-restraint and longevity. Finally, let us take the seventh step and be true companions and remain lifelong partners by this wedlock.
-We have taken the Seven Steps. You have become mine forever. Yes, we have become partners. I have become yours. Hereafter, I cannot live without you. Do not live without me. Let us share the joys. We are word and meaning, united. You are thought and I am sound. May the night be honey-sweet for us; may the morning be honey-sweet for us; may the earth be honey-sweet for us and the heavens be honey-sweet for us. May the plants be honey-sweet for us; may the sun be all honey for us; may the cows yield us honey-sweet milk. As the heavens are stable, as the earth is stable, as the mountains are stable, as the whole universe is stable, so may our unions be permanently settled.
Abhishek - Sprinkling of water, meditating on the sun and the pole star.
Anna Praashan - The couple make food offerings into the fire then feed a morsel of food to each other expressing mutual love and affection.
Aashirvadah - Benediction by the grandparents, uncles, other elders.
In the States and UK, you'll now see it more westernized - which is just fine.
If you are interested in more details, here is a link to a nice story of an American girl who married her husband in the Hindu tradition>
Generally, I think it is a mistake to give up our brains to another person, although there is probably no blanket statement that applies to everything and everyone.
If we do this, who is making 'progress' on our path, we or them?
Who has been given our life to live?
And, often, when people are willing to submit to the will of another, there are unscrupulous individuals more than willing to take advantage.
This happens in every religion.
It is my thought that we are born into an environment/body because there are lessons there for us to learn to deal with. But, then, the lesson might be one of surrender. lol
You hit the nail on the head here. After my stint through two Hindu religions I bought and read the book The Guru Papers, Masks of Authoritarian Power, which also includes other types of religion. I should have read that book first.
Neither make progress. The disciples are in submission while the leaders are in control and gain more power that usually becomes abusive. I say "usually" but in my experience it was "always." I was never really a good disciple because I stood up for myself, but not without being shunned.
Power is an interesting subject. Very nice, 'normal' people can sometimes become tyrants when given power over another.
Sometimes the model of graciousness at work morphs into a horror to those at home.
Perhaps, in the relationship of Guru to disciple, the real test is for the Guru. I would think that a Guru worth his status would encourage people to 'stand up for themselves' because we are here to deal with issues and not suppress them.
I heard, recently, on the topic of forgiveness - the example was of I believe Amish parents who had their child murdered by a man, and their forgiveness of him - sometimes that forgiveness can be merely suppression (from community pressure of what the 'right' thing to do is) and not healthy.
It takes insight and understanding to deal with issues, and not just ignoring them.
Then, this is just my experience talking, and there are things not easily expressed in words that can occur.
I have never met a guru that would encourage others to stand up for themselves. In the guru/disciple relationship what I saw and heard was that we are the guru's children, and that you never stand up for yourself but take whatever the guru dishes out to you. And they can dish out a lot of pretty mean stuff, and then they say that it is for your own good, that it burns your bad karma. One swami told me that he just learned to "roll with the punches" when other higher up gurus scolded him. When I left I wrote to my own guru and said that religion is about kindness and peace, not about verbal abuse.
I have never met a guru that would encourage others to stand up for themselves. In the guru/disciple relationship what I saw and heard was that we are the guru's children, and that you never stand up for yourself but take whatever the guru dishes out to you. And they can dish out a lot of pretty mean stuff, and then they say that it is for your own good, that it burns your bad karma. One swami told me that he just learned to "roll with the punches" when other higher up gurus scolded him. When I left I wrote to my own guru and said that religion is about kindness and peace, not about verbal abuse.
Wow. Sounds like the way we gringos would 'break' horses for riding. The native Americans would coax the animal into cooperation without breaking his spirit. You are left with a much better animal that way, one who can think for itself. But, of course, it is harder work for the guy in control and demands more time and thought on his part.
I, as a Westerner, am not sure of the benefits of submission to the will of another. On the other hand, I believe ego is one of the biggest obstacles to true understanding and development. So, when and if we reject a 'mode of learning', we should try to ensure that it is not just the ego talking(not that this was your case). I think a way of doing this is a self-imposed submission, such as fasting. In that way, we can learn to discern what our ego is saying from the reality of the situation. Observing our own brains and how it can play tricks on us is interesting and instructive.
There seems to be a manufactured self, an image, that easily flows through society, and then there is a more real 'me'. If we are reared to not question who we really are and want in life, it is easy to take the manufactured self as real. I think these are those who, at middle age or as old age approaches, query what it's all about and wonder if they have lived their lives in vain.
It seems a big enough job, to straighten out your own psyche, without some third party interjecting his agenda on you. I guess this is why some people pay for analysis, we think if we pay someone they will not run their own programs on us, and treat us gently.
Do you think that, perhaps, some people came from peculiar homes, and are to some degree disfunctional, and need the 'stability' of being in a group and being told what to do, and not think for themselves? Is there some good being done there?
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