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A perpetrator's actions don't always hurt them, and aren't always as ignorant as one might think. Some consequences of their actions might later hurt them anyway, but also not always. Then again, a perpetrator's actions always changes them and become a part of them (their past), which ties in with consequences; but again, considering memory and other things, it isn't 100% either. Teaching the selfish merits of goodness might be a bad idea, although it is what religion (including Humanism) does and most people rely on. The mind does create priorities, and if selfishness (self-care) is one priority (because of wanting to selfishly live forever in Heaven or because of YOLO), then it would be hard to convince someone that something that seems "good and self-wise" to them is actually ignorant of the unquantified gambles of life down the road. To many unmeasurable variables to really make it self evident.
Did I say it was easy to work out? When it is bad for the community it is ultimately bad for the individuals who use any particular action for trmporary advantage. The only disadvantage you present comes about only when the "real harm done" test is abandoned to suit the controllers who use religion as cover. Expose the controllers and that objectionis reduced.... it's what we attempt to do here.
I believe the primary cause of hatred is ignorance people tend to fear what they don't understand and this fear manifests itself as hatred.
However there is a concept of justified hatred that runs counter to this rule, in which the more a person knows the more justified the hatred is.
Things such as child Molestation, Greed, Abuse, Prejudice.
Are there really things we are justified in hating or is it simply our inability to understand it? Does our hatred lessen with knowledge? Are there things and people we Really should hate?
I have struggled with this ever since my encounter. There is such a disconnect between the unconditional love and acceptance that characterizes the God who IS one with everything and the realities of our physical and material existence - "red in tooth and claw," theodicy, etc. I harbor hatred for evil of all kinds and am unable to convince myself that I should ever feel differently about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift
Hate and anger may be appropriate in terms of actions done. How we deal with appropriate emotions when it comes to dealing with the people who perform them determines where we stand in actualizing the love of God. In the case of a perpetrator, the thing to consider about his well-being is how to show that such actions hurt him as well as the victim. Perpetrators simply have a wrong idea of how to meet their needs and this can be seriously deep seated, but ALWAYS a case of "they know not what they do." Reaching them is a serious problem, but often the overriding problem is to keep them from continuing their actions for the good of everyone involved.
This is the best understanding of it that I have encountered. Thank you, nate. It ties in neatly with the reason Jesus suffered scourging and crucifixion but did NOT have any hatred for His torturers and murderers. I maintain that such a state of mind will be forever beyond my reach, however.
I have struggled with this ever since my encounter. There is such a disconnect between the unconditional love and acceptance that characterizes the God who IS one with everything and the realities of our physical and material existence - "red in tooth and claw," theodicy, etc. I harbor hatred for evil of all kinds and am unable to convince myself that I should ever feel differently about it.
This is the best understanding of it that I have encountered. Thank you, nate. It ties in neatly with the reason Jesus suffered scourging and crucifixion but did NOT have any hatred for His torturers and murderers. I maintain that such a state of mind will be forever beyond my reach, however.
To show that as Jesus did is definitely beyond me, but honestly it is the only way I can approach the idea of loving "enemies."
I have struggled with this ever since my encounter. There is such a disconnect between the unconditional love and acceptance that characterizes the God who IS one with everything and the realities of our physical and material existence - "red in tooth and claw," theodicy, etc. I harbor hatred for evil of all kinds and am unable to convince myself that I should ever feel differently about it....
this post raises a good point.
and thank you for your honesty in stating you harbor hatred. (which is the topic of this thread)
it seems a rule is given such as "God is love"
and the obvious question is "how do I do this?"
if a person is told "do this"
without being told "how" then something very essential is missing.
it would be like putting small children in a preschool room and telling them to "read, write, do math, and get a high school diploma"
but not providing a curriculum, teachers, scholars, homework, assignments, guidelines, rules, laws, discipline, structure, examples, subject matter experts, study aids.
if we did that to children, or expected it of ourselves, it would be cruel. it would be setting them up for failure, instead of setting them up for success.
hate is an emotion. we learn proficiency and gain skills in the arena of emotions through resources such as counseling, therapy, 12-step work, recovery programs. without these resources, often people stay stuck in hatred.
and as the post above points out quite accurately, there needs to be something to connect the dots between "God is love" and "what about all that I see around me in the world?" There is a huge disconnect. What is missing is the willingness to pick up and use a curriculum that addresses "how do I do this." There are many curricula out there that address this. A person has free will of course to reject them all. And then nothing changes.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 08-27-2017 at 12:18 PM..
I have struggled with this ever since my encounter. There is such a disconnect between the unconditional love and acceptance that characterizes the God who IS one with everything and the realities of our physical and material existence - "red in tooth and claw," theodicy, etc. I harbor hatred for evil of all kinds and am unable to convince myself that I should ever feel differently about it. This is the best understanding of it that I have encountered. Thank you, nate. It ties in neatly with the reason Jesus suffered scourging and crucifixion but did NOT have any hatred for His torturers and murderers. I maintain that such a state of mind will be forever beyond my reach, however.
No one in their right mind would ever try to convince you that you should love evil.
I have struggled with this ever since my encounter. There is such a disconnect between the unconditional love and acceptance that characterizes the God who IS one with everything and the realities of our physical and material existence - "red in tooth and claw," theodicy, etc. I harbor hatred for evil of all kinds and am unable to convince myself that I should ever feel differently about it.
This is the best understanding of it that I have encountered. Thank you, nate. It ties in neatly with the reason Jesus suffered scourging and crucifixion but did NOT have any hatred for His torturers and murderers. I maintain that such a state of mind will be forever beyond my reach, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
No one in their right mind would ever try to convince you that you should love evil.
I have the same belief but then there is the bold above.
First, hating evil is not the same thing as hating a person. That being said...
Forever? Or beyond the reach of Christ within you?
I know you don't mean either of those things.
You are correct. I misspoke because of my extreme frustration over the disconnect. I certainly HOPE it is not forever or beyond my reach. That is why I have faith, hope, and love.
To show that as Jesus did is definitely beyond me, but honestly it is the only way I can approach the idea of loving "enemies."
I was going to avoid this thread like the plague, but while the supposed forgiveness for anything your enemies might do to you is beyond human comprehension and - I submit should be - because it is a Christian apologetic and an unhealthy one - I rather more relate to an ongoing phenomenon common to all soldiers of whatever age and a constant iritation and bewilderment to their officers. They will fight like a box of weasels when the battle is on, and then, when a breather and body collection ios ordered, they will be at first curious, amicable and in the end friendly. Napoleonic wars, US civil war, World war I.
Fighting as a soldier is a job, and you may hate the enemy (1), but you can never hate the soldier who is a man.
Unless you are a female soldier, of course.
The Officers never realized it, but that was the thinking that allowed the governments to suddenly tell you that you were now fighting with the enemy against for former allies. It's a job of work.
P,s the strangest battle of WWII - Perhaps the strangest ever: - Castle Itter
It might be too long, but there are some shorter and more gimicky you tubes.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-27-2017 at 12:51 PM..
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