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Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 15 days ago)
35,653 posts, read 18,015,765 times
Reputation: 50693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
There's no justification for what happened.
We know that black people were oppressed and faced racial violence in the past in this country.
The point of this right now is not to teach history, it's to further propagate racial hostility, especially within black people who are already set off by George Floyd and the exaggerated narrative being pedaled about unarmed black people being killed by racist cops. It's also additional evidence to further propagate the new religion of anti-racism among white leftists. When the sting of this one runs out, another old story will be pulled up. You certainly can't pull up anything from recent history, because in reality there is much more violence perpetrated by blacks against everyone else in the country over the last 40 years than the other way around. But, you have to keep the victim narrative alive to gain political power.
Before we can move ahead as a nation, I think we as a country have to acknowledge what was done to black people and black communities, and black families going back to the 1600's thru about 1990. Before the country can heal, it has to be acknowledged. You don't just get to say oh well, that was before, just move on.
And there are people in this thread who don't believe this story, who actually believe that white people have been victimized more often in our history by black people, who would say this is old, old history, who would actually question whether this was a successful economically thriving black community (as if that were categorically impossible).
I know people who have lived in Tulsa since the 1970's, and never ever heard of this until about 2017. Had no idea this had happened there.
So that's why this strife continues. Because of the deniers.
Before we can move ahead as a nation, I think we as a country have to acknowledge what was done to black people and black communities, and black families going back to the 1600's thru about 1990. Before the country can heal, it has to be acknowledged. You don't just get to say oh well, that was before, just move on.
And there are people in this thread who don't believe this story, who actually believe that white people have been victimized more often in our history by black people, who would say this is old, old history, who would actually question whether this was a successful economically thriving black community (as if that were categorically impossible).
I know people who have lived in Tulsa since the 1970's, and never ever heard of this until about 2017. Had no idea this had happened there.
So that's why this strife continues. Because of the deniers.
Here's how you fix this craziness: stop trying to tell people what they need to do to "heal the country". It's not going to happen. You will never, ever get a majority of people to confirm to your view of the steps that need to be taken.
What you can do - and what most people do - is be responsible for your own self, and your own family. And stop telling people that other people are in charge of their future - that if they don't succeed in life, it's not their fault.
People need to take personal responsibility and not blame their lack of success on others.
Before we can move ahead as a nation, I think we as a country have to acknowledge what was done to black people and black communities, and black families going back to the 1600's thru about 1990. Before the country can heal, it has to be acknowledged. You don't just get to say oh well, that was before, just move on.
Yet that’s exactly what you will do when I point out that slavery was thousands of years old, older than the three major religions today and “white…”
How are we going to heal and move forward when black and brown people won’t admit that they started slavery? Slavery was created before there even was a white person. I get that it might be hard to accept. I understand that it’s hard to look back in your (well not yours but your ancestor’s) past and then learn that you need to be the one to make amends for them. It’s unfortunate that black and brown people created such a horrible institution that was finally abolished by white people’s enlightenment principals. Science, reason, logic, merit. It’s been ugly but we have mostly cast off the horrible legacy that black and brown people left with us. We inherited it but we will work through it.
What, you don’t like the historically accurate facts being used to try and pigeonhole you into accepting something you shouldn’t be held responsible for?
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 15 days ago)
35,653 posts, read 18,015,765 times
Reputation: 50693
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475
Yet that’s exactly what you will do when I point out that slavery was thousands of years old, older than the three major religions today and “white…”
How are we going to heal and move forward when black and brown people won’t admit that they started slavery? Slavery was created before there even was a white person. I get that it might be hard to accept. I understand that it’s hard to look back in your (well not yours but your ancestor’s) past and then learn that you need to be the one to make amends for them. It’s unfortunate that black and brown people created such a horrible institution that was finally abolished by white people’s enlightenment principals. Science, reason, logic, merit. It’s been ugly but we have mostly cast off the horrible legacy that black and brown people left with us. We inherited it but we will work through it.
What, you don’t like the historically accurate facts being used to try and pigeonhole you into accepting something you shouldn’t be held responsible for?
I know all that stuff.
What difference does it make?
What difference does it make, if we can't say, honestly, that black people have been treated HORRIBLY by the white european colonists who formed and still run the country, up til about 1990? And Native Americans were treated HORRIBLY by the white European colonists who formed and still run the country?
What do you give up, by admitting that our (collective, I'm guessing you're descended from european colonists, but maybe not) ancestors have treated their ancestors abominably? What do you give up, to do that?
Before we can move ahead as a nation, I think we as a country have to acknowledge what was done to black people and black communities, and black families going back to the 1600's thru about 1990. Before the country can heal, it has to be acknowledged. You don't just get to say oh well, that was before, just move on.
And there are people in this thread who don't believe this story, who actually believe that white people have been victimized more often in our history by black people, who would say this is old, old history, who would actually question whether this was a successful economically thriving black community (as if that were categorically impossible).
I know people who have lived in Tulsa since the 1970's, and never ever heard of this until about 2017. Had no idea this had happened there.
So that's why this strife continues. Because of the deniers.
The country has been acknowledging this for decades. The goal is not about history, it's about gaining political power through white people being made to feel guilty and mobilizing angry black people. That political power movement has nothing to do with the country becoming better, stronger, or more prosperous, exactly the opposite. It simply wants to take the entire country down out of spite and hostility. Exactly what you say, you want to see strife continue until you have white people acknowledge how mean their ancestors were. It's absurd considering the vast majority of white people in the country today have a legacy of poverty and struggle themselves, and you keep pushing this on them, you WILL create many, many more racists who just don't want to be around black people.
Thankfully more sane rational black people are starting to realize this as this anti-racism hysteria reaches a fever pitch. As the cities continue to descend into crime and violence, you will start to hear more sanity, where the working, family oriented people will over-shout the militant angry radicals and the criminals. It may take a few years and the body count will be high, but we will get there.
Status:
"I don't understand. But I don't care, so it works out."
(set 15 days ago)
35,653 posts, read 18,015,765 times
Reputation: 50693
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72
The country has been acknowledging this for decades. The goal is not about history, it's about gaining political power through white people being made to feel guilty and mobilizing angry black people. That political power movement has nothing to do with the country becoming better, stronger, or more prosperous, exactly the opposite. It simply wants to take the entire country down out of spite and hostility. Exactly what you say, you want to see strife continue until you have white people acknowledge how mean their ancestors were. It's absurd considering the vast majority of white people in the country today have a legacy of poverty and struggle themselves, and you keep pushing this on them, you WILL create many, many more racists who just don't want to be around black people.
Thankfully more sane rational black people are starting to realize this as this anti-racism hysteria reaches a fever pitch. As the cities continue to descend into crime and violence, you will start to hear more sanity, where the working, family oriented people will over-shout the militant angry radicals and the criminals. It may take a few years and the body count will be high, but we will get there.
It is a fine balance, how to educate the country about past injustices without making the victims of such angry about it, and thus uncooperative with the mainstream. I'm being sincere. It's difficult to find the balance between admitting the centuries of abuses, without engendering hostility. Apparently for some reason, on BOTH sides, not just the side of the victim. On the side of the descendants of the perpetrators, too, who are in denial.
The thing is, there are people who still don't get it. I am in a book club, and back when The Help came out it was really popular. MANY members of my book club would wistfully reflect, oh, we LOVED our help and she loved us. And they'd go on to say she even attended great grand daddy's funeral, in her maids uniform, of course. And yes, she had her own toilet in the garage, the way everyone did it. Absolutely tone deaf to the reality that she did NOT love them, but was paid a pittance to pretend she did. And these women looking back on it, still didn't see the reality.
We've got to see the reality. And hope it doesn't tear us apart. Further.
Before we can move ahead as a nation, I think we as a country have to acknowledge what was done to black people and black communities, and black families going back to the 1600's thru about 1990. Before the country can heal, it has to be acknowledged. You don't just get to say oh well, that was before, just move on.
And there are people in this thread who don't believe this story, who actually believe that white people have been victimized more often in our history by black people, who would say this is old, old history, who would actually question whether this was a successful economically thriving black community (as if that were categorically impossible).
I know people who have lived in Tulsa since the 1970's, and never ever heard of this until about 2017. Had no idea this had happened there.
So that's why this strife continues. Because of the deniers.
Agreed. I believe the country has a curse on it because it refuses to properly deal with the past occurrences, all the while claiming to be Godly/Christian.
You might notice that much of the opening to this wiki page is recent. The Black Wall Street stuff I never saw there until just recently. One of the citations is from "The Root", hardly a credible source of information. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre.
There are plenty other sources besides Wikipedia. Either a person wants to be educated or they do not. For many multigenerational Americans, it seems they choose not to be educated about what happened in the country. They choose denial and are hostile and angry about the truth. The way things were handled in this place has caused a backward and problematic state of affairs and it isn’t going anywhere.
There are plenty other sources besides Wikipedia. Either a person wants to be educated or they do not. For many multigenerational Americans, it seems they choose not to be educated about what happened in the country. They choose denial and are hostile and angry about the truth. The way things were handled in this place has caused a backward and problematic state of affairs and it isn’t going anywhere.
They believe what they were taught as children, in many of the former Confederate States, it's comforting mythologies.
Quote:
Abstract
The Myth of the Lost Cause is an inaccurate account of the Civil War that remains prominent in American society. The myth alters key aspects of the war such as its cause, participants, and outcome. It is my hypothesis that one reason many Americans misunderstand the war is because they learned inaccurate information as children. Most children first learn of the war in school textbooks. I became curious as to the accuracy of Civil War information. As there is little research on this topic, this paper begins the process of bridging the gap between education curriculum and the Lost Cause.
I examined textbooks used in Tennessee schools between 1889-2002. I discovered that the Lost Cause is most prominent in textbooks used in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century but remains present in modern textbooks. I conclude that material will continue to correct itself as the twenty-first century continues.
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