[Goodpasture]

By Heide Branders, Reuters
OKLAHOMA CITY — Two men of Native American descent in Oklahoma said on Tuesday they plan to take advantage of tribal law to marry, even though gay marriages are illegal in the state.

Darren Black Bear and Jason Pickel of Oklahoma City intend to marry on October 31 after they were granted a marriage license last week through the Cheyenne and Arapahoe Tribal Court, which does not specify gender in its law and is not subject to state law.

"People keep saying we found a loophole to get married in Oklahoma. But we're not getting married in Oklahoma," said Pickel. "We're getting married in the sovereign nation of the Cheyenne Arapahoe Tribe."

Cheyenne and Arapahoe Tribes spokeswoman Lisa Liebl said tribal law requires that both spouses be of Native American descent and live within the jurisdiction of the tribe in order to be issued a marriage certificate.

They are the third same-sex couple to be issued a marriage license by the Cheyenne and Arapaho Tribes, she said.

Native American gay couple to wed in Oklahoma under tribal law ? despite state ban - U.S. News

American Indian traditionalists tend to see a person's basic character as a reflection of their spirit. Androgynous or transgender persons are seen as doubly blessed, having both the spirit of a man and the spirit of a woman, since everything that exists is thought to come from the spirit world. Thus, they are honored for having two spirits, and are seen as more spiritually gifted than the typical masculine male or feminine female. Therefore, many Native American religions, rather than stigmatizing such persons, often looked to them as religious leaders and teachers.

Charles Orgbon: Two-Spirit People: Gays Accepted by Native Americans

As one elder told me once, "We don't waste anyone."

[okie1962]

That is great news! I heard on another news source that this is the third couple to be granted a same sex marriage license by the Cheyenne and Arapahoe tribe. This would put Oklahoma before such states as CO,PA,NJ,FL... as far as having SSM with in it's borders.

[StillwaterTownie]

Maybe some Oklahoma Republican legislators will want to declare war on Native Americans giving out same sex marriage licenses by banning them. I tend to doubt there is a way to do that by the state overriding tribal sovereignty, though. So please, Oklahoma Republicans don't make Oklahoma look bad and backwards by trying to, anyway. Instead, listen to the wisdom Native Americans have to offer on the subject.

[#1soonerfan]

Good for the Cheyenne Arapaho Tribe for allowing SSM.

I'm sure Mary Fallin and the attorney general office are busily figuring out ways to invalidate this.

[Dale Cooper]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

Maybe some Oklahoma Republican legislators will want to declare war on Native Americans giving out same sex marriage licenses by banning them. I tend to doubt there is a way to do that by the state overriding tribal sovereignty, though. So please, Oklahoma Republicans don't make Oklahoma look bad and backwards by trying to, anyway. Instead, listen to the wisdom Native Americans have to offer on the subject.

Oh, for Pete's sake, get real. No Republican cares one whit about these 2 fellas getting married. If you have proof they do, please share.

[WesternPilgrim]

This is all rather depressing. I thought OK was safe from this creeping madness.

Isn't one California enough?

Does the Cherokee Nation allow this too?

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

This is all rather depressing. I thought OK was safe from this creeping madness.

Isn't one California enough?

Does the Cherokee Nation allow this too?

Surely, many people at a prior time in history when the supreme court ruled whites could legally marry blacks felt the same way, but hardly anyone years later thinks it was a depressing mistake.

No, California isn't enough. It's Iowa and around a dozen other states.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by Dale Cooper

Oh, for Pete's sake, get real. No Republican cares one whit about these 2 fellas getting married. If you have proof they do, please share.

Has Rep. Sally Kern's opinion been asked? If they don't give a whit, then they should feel the same way toward two non Native Americans of the same sex being allowed to be issued a state marriage license in Oklahoma.

[WesternPilgrim]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

Surely, many people at a prior time in history when the supreme court ruled whites could legally marry blacks felt the same way, but hardly anyone years later thinks it was a depressing mistake.

Apples and oranges. Marriage is impossible between people of the same sex. The law doesn't change that.

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

No, California isn't enough. It's Iowa and around a dozen other states.

I thought you Okies weren't interested in following California over a cliff. As a fed-up Californian, I'm depending on places like Oklahoma to keep sanity alive in a world gone mad. I hope there are enough people in your government who care enough to shoot this down.

[swake]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

Apples and oranges. Marriage is impossible between people of the same sex. The law doesn't change that.

I don't know what to tell you, but I have friends that are gay and married. And have kids too. There are plenty of gay people in Oklahoma. Gays don't have to live in any closet here. Tulsa and Oklahoma City have pride parades, and have plenty of gay bars and clubs. Both cities are actually magnets for Gay people from the region's smaller towns and cities. Conservatism in Oklahoma, especially in the cities, actually skews more Libertarian. People mostly want to let each other live here.

Something else you may not like, we also have a good deal of immigrants, legal and otherwise. Even in small town Oklahoma. While the locals were all stirred up over illegal immigration 5 to 10 years ago that has mostly faded now. Now there are lots of oil field or big agri-business towns in Oklahoma where a huge percentage of the town speaks Spanish first. Tulsa and Oklahoma City have large hispanic areas with Spanish language grocery stores, restaurants, newspapers, radio and TV stations. Oklahoma City now has a million square foot hispanic flea market style shopping mall. Mexico is just 10 hours south of here. We also have a good number of immigrants from Central America, India, Vietnam and China. Tulsa has a good sized Hmong community and a growing Burmese community.

Oklahoma is also had the third largest gaming industry of any state. That comes with the huge Native population. The tribes are very powerful in Oklahoma.

Oklahoma is NOT some 1950's style straight white conservative wonderland. Mostly because that never really existed.