[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

Apples and oranges. Marriage is impossible between people of the same sex. The law doesn't change that.

I thought you Okies weren't interested in following California over a cliff. As a fed-up Californian, I'm depending on places like Oklahoma to keep sanity alive in a world gone mad. I hope there are enough people in your government who care enough to shoot this down.

Marriage isn't impossible between people of the same sex, as it's a sociocultural construct. People invented it and can change it. If you want to go strictly by the Biblical definition, don't forget the undying Word of God in all definitions of marriage:

Genesis 20:12 (And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.)

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 (If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her and give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: and the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; and, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; and they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.)

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.)

1 Chronicles 2:35-36 (Now Sheshan had no sons, but daughters. And Sheshan had a servant, an Egyptian, whose name was Jarha. And Sheshan gave his daughter to Jarha his servant to wife; and she bare him Attai.)

1 Chronicles 3:1-9 (List of David's eight wives, AND "These were all the sons of David, beside the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister." the concubines not named.)

Matthew 19:28-29 (And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.)

1 Kings 11:1-3 (But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites... And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.)

Genesis 4 (Not outright said, but with Adam, Cain, Abel and Eve, the only female... where did the future generations come from? Gross.)

Sorry... I found quite a few definitions of marriage and what is acceptable, but was having some difficulty finding anything in the Bible about same-sex marriage. Enlighten me.

[WesternPilgrim]

Originally Posted by swake

I don't know what to tell you, but I have friends that are gay and married. And have kids too. There are plenty of gay people in Oklahoma. Gays don't have to live in any closet here. Tulsa and Oklahoma City have pride parades, and have plenty of gay bars and clubs. Both cities are actually magnets for Gay people from the region's smaller towns and cities. Conservatism in Oklahoma, especially in the cities, actually skews more Libertarian. People mostly want to let each other live here.

Something else you may not like, we also have a good deal of immigrants, legal and otherwise. Even in small town Oklahoma. While the locals were all stirred up over illegal immigration 5 to 10 years ago that has mostly faded now. Now there are lots of oil field or big agri-business towns in Oklahoma where a huge percentage of the town speaks Spanish first. Tulsa and Oklahoma City have large hispanic areas with Spanish language grocery stores, restaurants, newspapers, radio and TV stations. Oklahoma City now has a million square foot hispanic flea market style shopping mall. Mexico is just 10 hours south of here. We also have a good number of immigrants from Central America, India, Vietnam and China. Tulsa has a good sized Hmong community and a growing Burmese community.

Oklahoma is also had the third largest gaming industry of any state. That comes with the huge Native population. The tribes are very powerful in Oklahoma.

Oklahoma is NOT some 1950's style straight white conservative wonderland. Mostly because that never really existed.

I understand that Tulsa has a thriving Vietnamese community. That's one reason I'm looking at the city. I have good friends and relatives from Mexico, SE Asia, and even Africa. There's nothing immoral or deviant about being an immigrant or speaking a language other than English.

We're not looking for a white conservative wonderland, not at all. Just a friendly place where ordinary Christian values are publicly respected, economic life isn't taxed and regulated to death, and deviant lifestyles aren't celebrated as healthy and forced on schoolchildren.

[WesternPilgrim]

I think the future is bright for Oklahoma, though. Thousands of fed-up Californians who respect Oklahoma's historic culture may soon end up there as refugees. California's great conservative Central Valley has long had a strong Okie influence, and you can hear shades of the accent in our smaller cities and rural areas. (Merle Haggard lives only about an hour from here ...). CA politics and a lousy economy are pushing conservatives out of the state. At the same time, I suspect there will soon be a reverse migration of assorted liberals from red states to California and the east coast. It will all sort itself out.

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by Goodpasture

Native American gay couple to wed in Oklahoma under tribal law ? despite state ban - U.S. News



Charles Orgbon: Two-Spirit People: Gays Accepted by Native Americans

As one elder told me once, "We don't waste anyone."

Wait a minute goodpasture they weren't married in the " State Of Oklahoma " they were married
on a " Indian Reservation An Independent Nation Within A State " .

I backed Domestic Partnerships out here in California , and so did POTUS until he had to win his second election " they Domestic Partnerships offered the same rights as Same Sex Marriages " under a different CONTRACT , however that ship ( SSM) has come and gone. SSM is going to be the Law Of The Land In 20 to 30 Years " we are just waiting for the other Shoe To DROP........

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Marriage isn't impossible between people of the same sex, as it's a sociocultural construct. People invented it and can change it. If you want to go strictly by the Biblical definition, don't forget the undying Word of God in all definitions of marriage:

Genesis 20:12 (And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.)

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 (If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her and give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: and the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; and, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; and they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.)

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.)

1 Chronicles 2:35-36 (Now Sheshan had no sons, but daughters. And Sheshan had a servant, an Egyptian, whose name was Jarha. And Sheshan gave his daughter to Jarha his servant to wife; and she bare him Attai.)

1 Chronicles 3:1-9 (List of David's eight wives, AND "These were all the sons of David, beside the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister." the concubines not named.)

Matthew 19:28-29 (And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.)

1 Kings 11:1-3 (But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites... And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.)

Genesis 4 (Not outright said, but with Adam, Cain, Abel and Eve, the only female... where did the future generations come from? Gross.)

Sorry... I found quite a few definitions of marriage and what is acceptable, but was having some difficulty finding anything in the Bible about same-sex marriage. Enlighten me.

Christians don't live under OLD TESTAMENT LAW but New Testament Rules for Marriage
and Christian Faith which is One Man and One Wo(Man) Adam and Eve ( Not ) Adam and Steve.

The JEW'S don't even live under the OLD TESTAMENT these days they couldn't exist in any
Modern Society with the Laws Of The OLD TESTAMENT.

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Marriage isn't impossible between people of the same sex, as it's a sociocultural construct. People invented it and can change it. If you want to go strictly by the Biblical definition, don't forget the undying Word of God in all definitions of marriage:

Genesis 20:12 (And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.)

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 (If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her and give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate: and the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her; and, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city. And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him; and they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days. But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the ***** in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.)

Deuteronomy 22:28-29 (If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.)

1 Chronicles 2:35-36 (Now Sheshan had no sons, but daughters. And Sheshan had a servant, an Egyptian, whose name was Jarha. And Sheshan gave his daughter to Jarha his servant to wife; and she bare him Attai.)

1 Chronicles 3:1-9 (List of David's eight wives, AND "These were all the sons of David, beside the sons of the concubines, and Tamar their sister." the concubines not named.)

Matthew 19:28-29 (And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.)

1 Kings 11:1-3 (But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites... And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines: and his wives turned away his heart.)

Genesis 4 (Not outright said, but with Adam, Cain, Abel and Eve, the only female... where did the future generations come from? Gross.)

Sorry... I found quite a few definitions of marriage and what is acceptable, but was having some difficulty finding anything in the Bible about same-sex marriage. Enlighten me.

I feel if christans do not wish to wed gay couples in their churches, fine with me. But that is about it. Marriage is not a moral/religious state, but a LEGAL one, defining stated legal rights. If two people of adult age wish to make this bond then who should say no? You can believe whatever you want IN your religion, but cannot make others of other views bow down to your brand of faith/religion/rules. HUMAN rights triumph sectarian rules.

I would abolish 'marriage' in the sense of a legal situation. Anyone of adult age can form a legal contract with another adult of legal age which some would term 'marriage'. If you wish a ceremony, the county will oblidge. If you want to 'marry' in a church and the one you ask doesn't like your choice of partner, then another will. So religions can stew in their own preconceptions and people can freely express themselves. No 'marriage' would allow a full civil union with all attached to it to be the norm, and only those who feel the need to sancitify the relationship would need to deal with any form of religion.

I would also like a sort of 'limited' civil unioin. So if its established that two people decided to live together certain rules automatically apply. Each owns the stuff they brought. Each can be held liable for half the rent, bills etc when they split. So long as they are together and sharing a dwelling and a relationship, they count for those things where the rules are different for couples and individuals. There would be some form of 'community property' where the sometimes REALLY bitter fights would have rules that come when they bought 'stuff' together. Not sure what you do if he argumenet is who gets the dog.

No, I'm not christan but consider myself a part of my faith. And I'm sure the Mother would welcome two persons of the same sex to do a handfasting if there was love and commitment, which is what defines the relationship known as a 'marriage'.

[StillwaterTownie]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

I thought you Okies weren't interested in following California over a cliff. As a fed-up Californian, I'm depending on places like Oklahoma to keep sanity alive in a world gone mad. I hope there are enough people in your government who care enough to shoot this down.

Sorry, Oklahoma can't stay backward all the time. It couldn't keep lotteries and casinos out of the state, even though many people thought Oklahoma was too backward and Christian to allow the freedom to have such entertainment. The law against tattoo application was thought unjust and eventually gotten rid of, too.

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by Howest2008

Wait a minute goodpasture they weren't married in the " State Of Oklahoma " they were married
on a " Indian Reservation An Independent Nation Within A State " .

I backed Domestic Partnerships out here in California , and so did POTUS until he had to win his second election " they Domestic Partnerships offered the same rights as Same Sex Marriages " under a different CONTRACT , however that ship ( SSM) has come and gone. SSM is going to be the Law Of The Land In 20 to 30 Years " we are just waiting for the other Shoe To DROP........

I like the legal condition being a domestic partnership and no other legal term. So you get married in a church but you can make the legal contract and have the rights without it. Applying to ALL sorts of unions including those with the more traditional blend. Why should there be ANY need for any other sort of contract for the male female union? Same sex unions also involve children so the same rules would hold.

[nightbird47]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

Sorry, Oklahoma can't stay backward all the time. It couldn't keep lotteries and casinos out of the state, even though many people thought Oklahoma was too backward and Christian to allow the freedom to have such entertainment.

Still hearing about maybe a Costco opening here????? Does this mean a compromise on the laws about alchol which I hear is one problem with a number of stores. Please bring on Trader Joes!

[thenewtexan]

I'm sure Sally Kern is jumping for joy! LMAO!!!!!