[nmnita]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

RB, certainly you don't really believe that the US Government would ever LIE to the indian tribes, do you?????

reading this and your first response, do you believe everything your profession have said? If you do, you need to re-think....I don't know and you don't know what is factual and what is myth. Again I am not defending or supporting, just making a statement.

Nita

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by nmnita

reading this and your first response, do you believe everything your profession have said? If you do, you need to re-think....I don't know and you don't know what is factual and what is myth. Again I am not defending or supporting, just making a statement.

Nita

I'm assuming you meant to say professors? No, I don't believe everything my professors said, however, I do read a great deal, and most of my opinions are formed by age and acquired knowledge from every source.

[BigOkie]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

I'm assuming you meant to say professors? No, I don't believe everything my professors said, however, I do read a great deal, and most of my opinions are formed by age and acquired knowledge from every source.

I have Native American ancestry, and while I believe we Native Americans were lied to in the 19th Century, it doesn't happen near as much now.

Conversely though, look at the way the Native Americans abuse the state system. Cigarette tax stamps, automobile registration (the sick number of tribal plates really, really irritates me now) and some of the corruption that used to go on, especially in the Cherokee Nation (my tribe). The casinos make a sick amount of money that the state essentially has no claim to.

I'm not even legally on the Dawes Rolls, but I still claim my heritage. I know people who almost look albino but claim 1 in 512 and get benefits. Burns me up. I don't look incredibly Native American except for certain facial features (high cheekbones dark complexion to some extent).

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by BigOkie

I have Native American ancestry, and while I believe we Native Americans were lied to in the 19th Century, it doesn't happen near as much now.

Conversely though, look at the way the Native Americans abuse the state system. Cigarette tax stamps, automobile registration (the sick number of tribal plates really, really irritates me now) and some of the corruption that used to go on, especially in the Cherokee Nation (my tribe). The casinos make a sick amount of money that the state essentially has no claim to.

I'm not even legally on the Dawes Rolls, but I still claim my heritage. I know people who almost look albino but claim 1 in 512 and get benefits. Burns me up. I don't look incredibly Native American except for certain facial features (high cheekbones dark complexion to some extent).

And of course the BIA has always been free of corruption? It sounds like you your view of the money the tribes are making on casinos is influenced by your own agenda. The State may not have claim to that money, but the tribes give a lot back to the community and are among the most generous employers in the State.

[BigOkie]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

And of course the BIA has always been free of corruption? It sounds like you your view of the money the tribes are making on casinos is influenced by your own agenda. The State may not have claim to that money, but the tribes give a lot back to the community and are among the most generous employers in the State.

I'm not saying they're free of corruption; my point is throwing stones at glass houses is dangerous.

Most of the tribes are just as corrupt and they've learned ways to bilk the system at the expense of state resident.

And agenda? What agenda? It's called an OBSERVATION. Wow. I have no agenda, I just observe. Awfully sensitive, aren't we? You wouldn't happen to be a tribal employee, would you?

[colleeng47]

Originally Posted by BigOkie

I'm not saying they're free of corruption; my point is throwing stones at glass houses is dangerous.

Most of the tribes are just as corrupt and they've learned ways to bilk the system at the expense of state resident.

And agenda? What agenda? It's called an OBSERVATION. Wow. I have no agenda, I just observe. Awfully sensitive, aren't we? You wouldn't happen to be a tribal employee, would you?

Your post appeared to me that you're a bit miffed at not being allowed to get benefits even though you claim your Indian heritage. If I misread your post, I apologize. BTW, I've been called a lot of things, but sensitive is not one of them And no, I'm not a Tribal employee.

[nmnita]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Your post appeared to me that you're a bit miffed at not being allowed to get benefits even though you claim your Indian heritage. If I misread your post, I apologize. BTW, I've been called a lot of things, but sensitive is not one of them And no, I'm not a Tribal employee.

Colleen, I do not think that is or was his point, I think just the opposite, he is upset with those who get benefits regardless of how little native American blood they have. When we were in NM we saw so much of this, it wasn't funny.

I am not saying native Americans didn't get a bum deal, anymore than I would claim slavery was fair, but there comes a time when it is healthier to move forward, not drell on what was. what happened 200 years ago is over, what happens now and in the future is what counts.

Nita

[BigOkie]

Originally Posted by colleeng47

Your post appeared to me that you're a bit miffed at not being allowed to get benefits even though you claim your Indian heritage. If I misread your post, I apologize. BTW, I've been called a lot of things, but sensitive is not one of them And no, I'm not a Tribal employee.

I'm not miffed at being unable to get them. I know full well the rules about tribal membership legally and the Dawes Rolls.

What miffs me is that someone with barely 2/10 of a percent of Native American ancestry can get that via the Dawes Rolls, but me, as 1/16 Native American (I'm 1/32 Cherokee, 1/32 Lakota Sioux) isn't even recognized tribally in the state of Oklahoma as a Native American. I'm not seeking the benefits, but I wish the standard wasn't so low. And I still think the tribal license plates are a bit much.

[karibear]

Originally Posted by BigOkie

I'm not miffed at being unable to get them. I know full well the rules about tribal membership legally and the Dawes Rolls.

What miffs me is that someone with barely 2/10 of a percent of Native American ancestry can get that via the Dawes Rolls, but me, as 1/16 Native American (I'm 1/32 Cherokee, 1/32 Lakota Sioux) isn't even recognized tribally in the state of Oklahoma as a Native American. I'm not seeking the benefits, but I wish the standard wasn't so low. And I still think the tribal license plates are a bit much.

I am a higher percentage than you - 1/8 Apache -but they wouldn't recognize me, either. It's one thing to get a child to raise on the reservation in the traditional lifestyle via ICWA, it's another thing entirely to permit an adult to see what tribal life is like. On the other hand, I've also known some pure Caucasians who were legally adopted into a tribe, and thus became eligible for any benefits not tied to a CIB quantum. It's further compounded by each tribal group having it's own requirements regarding who is and isn't a 'real' Indian, and the fed's decision to not recognize some tribes entirely, which leaves some full bloods SOL. Some of the Cherokees who were on the Dawes Roll were barely Indian by any standard, but because they were on the Roll, their descendents can claim tribal affiliation. If I recall correctly [and I may not, after all this time], there are some enrolled Cherokees who have an actual quantum of 1/32,000. Makes a person wonder.

Might help if you think of the license plates as just another kind of vanity plate - there are certainly a lot of them all over the country.

[_redbird_]

Originally Posted by BigOkie

I have Native American ancestry, and while I believe we Native Americans were lied to in the 19th Century, it doesn't happen near as much now.

Reminds me of the Lone Ranger/Tonto joke, what you mean "We?"

At least you're honest. But... as to WHY you don't like the idea of "us" benefiting from from:

Originally Posted by BigOkie

Conversely though, look at the way the Native Americans abuse the state system. Cigarette tax stamps, automobile registration (the sick number of tribal plates really, really irritates me now) and some of the corruption that used to go on, especially in the Cherokee Nation (my tribe). The casinos make a sick amount of money that the state essentially has no claim to.

Which brings up a good question. What happens to the profits generated by Indian gaming?

"The IGRA requires net revenues from any tribal gaming operation are to be used for the following purposes:

*
fund tribal government operations
*
provide for the general welfare of the Indian tribe and its members
*
promote tribal economic development
*
donate to charitable organizations
*
help fund operations of local government agencies

If the tribe is able to adequately provide for these services and wishes to distribute net revenue in the form of a per capita payment to members of the tribe, the tribe must have a Revenue Allocation Plan (RAP), which is approved by the Secretary of the Interior."

Source:
OSF Gaming Compliance Unit - Frequently Asked Questions

Although the OK State Government has an open book, the latest statistics are outdated. 2008 will be a lot higher than any other year. The table below shows how much the was paid to the State of Oklahoma. Source: http://ok.gov/okaa/Gaming_Compact_Receipts.html

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff275/redbird4848/gaming.gif (broken link)

nmnita, lying and racism is not in the past.

Just as American's "Freedom isn't free, " Native American "benefits" are not free. They were paid for with the blood of our ancestors and are an agreement between two SOVEREIGN NATIONS. They are not freebies.

Big Okie is right about corruption. Wherever there is money, there is greed.

A friend of mine is on the local tribal board told me his tribe did not receive ANY money from one whole year of their casino operation. Why? The person who helped fund their initial costs to set up their casino ignored federal regulations and the tribe was fined big time. (He was recently in the paper. The Feds arrested him on RICO charges.) Plus they had to pay back the loans on start up costs.

Oklahoma tribes haven't caught up to those CA and CONN tribes yet.