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EWW! Sorry but I wish southeast ohio didn't exist. I have lived in Cleveland all my life and went to the University of Dayton for college and visited Cincinnati many times and other than dayton by far the most boring city I have been to.
What does Cincy have to do with southeast Ohio? Cincy is in southwest Ohio.
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Cincy is Boring, Dirty, Run Down and it feels like a small town.
Wow - it takes a LOT of nerve for somebody from Cleveland to call another city dirty and run down!
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I can go on forever about why Cleveland is better then Cincy but most people already know that.
Really? Then why is it that the Cleveland metro area continues to decline in population while the Cincy metro area continues to grow? While the Cleveland metro area lost 34,000 residents (1.6% of its population) from 2000 to 2006, the Cincy metro area gained 95,000 (a 4.7% increase). Even Detroit, which gained 16,000 (0.4%), is doing better than Cleveland in population change!
Also why is everything about cincy in Kentucky. Thats all the people of cincy go to when they go downtown is go to the Kentucky side. WTF!
Not true at all. The high culture (museums, symphony, theater) is all in Cincy, as are the stadiums and arena. As for nightlife, the fountain square area in the heart of downtown is now booming with it, as Mt. Adams (very near downtown) always has and still is.
I thought this would be an interesting and informative thread for those who may be looking to relocate here. Feel free to add your own reasons. Caveat: I live in Cuyahoga County and my opinions may be specific to just this county.
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-Property taxes are TOO HIGH and grossly out of step with the local economy.
-School systems are in the toilet, yet they keep presenting levies each year to try to put a green band-aid on the issues effecting the schools...and of course that raises the property taxes on an already over-taxed population.
-Sales tax is TOO HIGH, and they are getting ready to raise it again in September. See above statement.
-CRIME: because the economy is in the toilet, people are getting desperate and gangs and violent crime are on the rise.
-Weather: Who needs short summers and long, cold as f*ck winters? I literally get to see my yard in full lush green for 4-5 months before everything begins to turn brown and die. And then here comes the snow...
-Pollution: Ohio, true to its manufacturing, steel belt history, is one of the most polluted states in the Union. 3 out of 7 people in my immediate family have all developed asthma living here.
-The People: Not all, but too many are cold, unfriendly, racist (but in that quiet, unconfrontational way), undereducated...I could go on and on. Most of them don't even make eye contact on the street, let alone say "hello".
-Entertainment: Football, Basketball...College Football, College Basketball...Baseball...and our teams mostly suck.
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There it is, my Ohio hate list. Thank God I'll be leaving this hell hole soon.
Everybody claims the same reasons for leaving, whether its Ohio or California or Florida or New York. So, I think its pretty obvious that people move for non-objective reasons . . . because their individual life sucks at this time in this or that place . . . and it is an American tradition when things look bleak to pack it up and go elsewhere.
I'm staying because:
We have four serious seasons that are more genuine and less extreme than anywhere else. (I am a Northeast Ohioan, so this is specific to our area of Ohio). We get REAL snow in Winter and white Christmases. We get REAL hot Summers to spend on our beautiful beaches (which because Lake Erie is a lake, not the ocean, has a temperature in summer conducive to swimming). We get the joyous rebirth of Spring in our relatively more forested metro area. And we have, perhaps, the best Fall in the country. (just try a fresh Ohio Apple (or pie or cider) or our legendary sweet corn).
In Northeast Ohio, unlike perhaps anywhere else in the country, we have a National Park smack dab in between two major cities (Cleveland and Akron). In addition to this incredible recreation/natural resource we also have Lake Erie, which provides all the benefits (except fresh lobsters) of coastal living. Need I mention the Lake Erie Islands and the tourist areas west (and east) of Cleveland?
Ohio's people are incredible. By all measures, we're average Americans. But in one of the most populous states, that we are average means we resemble the complete distribution of talents and treasures. Our three largest cities are large by anybody's standards: Cleveland, Columbus, and Cincinnati. Our next cities would be first, second, or third in all but a handful of states: Akron, Dayton, Toledo.
The corporate presence throughout Ohio is legendary--the old money that was made here IS the old money that was made ANYWHERE in our country. (Rockefeller was a Clevelander). We still are making money--even if it does look like we will never make it again in the old ways (iron & steel).
We have about as many colleges and universities as any state in the union. Our best, Case Western Reserve University, Oberlin College, Miami University, and Kenyon are nationally known. Our largest, The Ohio State University is incredible . . . and we have gazillions of other GREAT schools statewide.
We've got the arts. In Cleveland alone, we have what is, perhaps, the best or second best orchestra in the world. Our art museum could be plopped down in New York City and even they would ooh and ahh. Other cities have venerable institutions: Cinci's orchestra, Columbus's Wexner Center, etc. Cleveland's Playhouse Square is the largest single-location performing arts district outside New York.
Can we talk animals? The Toledo Zoo is world class. As is Columbus's.
And hospitals: Cincinnati Children's, Univ of Cinci Hospitals, Ohio State University Hospitals, Rainbow Babies & Children's Hospital, University Hospitals of Cleveland, and the great Cleveland Clinic are all here.
Finally, I guess, more about the people. We resemble America a bit more than almost any other state. If you exchanged Ohio's vote for President with that of the nation as a whole, you'd get the same result every time. We're rich and poor, black and white (and Asian and Hispanic and immigrant and etc), we're fat, lazy, and stupid sometimes and healthy, productive, and intelligent others. We're accused of some kind of racism (mine is usually against New Yorkers and Southerners, though I secretly love Long Island and the South). Yet, we WERE the Underground Railroad in both body and spirit. And Cleveland relative to the rest of the country is an Eastern liberal big city. Our immigration history is different all over: southern Ohio folks came via southern routes from Maryland and Virginia, etc. Northeast Ohioans are direct descendants of their Connecticut forefathers. Western Ohio farmers are, by and large, later German immigrants. And then the 20th century filled ALL our cities with Poles, Italians, Irish, etc etc etc. Find more diversity anywhere. Okay, you named New York, LA, and Frisco. Whoopee ****. Here, we don't keep these immigrants down, however.
Finally, I live in a house that would be $1.5 million bucks between San Jose and San Francisco. It would be $500 to $600 on Long Island. An easy $400 in Atlanta or Chicago or Houston. The real-life actual purchase price of my home was $225. For this reason alone, folks should be packing up and moving here. Especially when the Global Warming floods Manhattan and a few other low-lying places.
Of course, I'm glad they don't come here. And I'm glad folks who need to leave are leaving (they're not much more than dead wood to us in their present state, anyway). That leaves more of the Great State of Ohio for ME. And I do truly mean that. I could enjoy the economic growth we'll be experiencing as the ice-caps melt, but I really enjoy this place just the way it is.
So, on your way out, don't let the door hit ya!
But, seriously, after you find out the grass is NOT greener wherever you end up, please come back re-energized to put something into Ohio and get something better back out.
Sincerely,
ClevelandBill
Bay Village, Ohio
I was really glad to see this positive view of a state where I don't live now, but where I did live once, which I will always remember warmly (and--who knows--maybe I'll find my way there again some day). I lived in three states before the age of nine, when my family moved to the Boston area, where I grew up. I went to college in Ohio, and continued living there for several years afterward, and really felt a deep affinity and affection for Ohio. During those years I felt tugged in two directions, because I loved the day-to-day life in Ohio--friendly, down-to-earth people and real all-American hometown kinds of communities--while my family and old friends were back in MA. I found my way back east when a recession, which hit the old industrial states the hardest of any region of the country, put me out of work for two years, forcing me to move back east and seek work in an area less severely affected by that particular recession. Life moves on, and I've never been back to Ohio, but I've always missed the Buckeye State.
I could tell you plenty of features I liked about Ohio, but here are three: 1) The towns. In the Northeast, many towns outside the large urban areas are gray and decrepit, economically depressed and seeing most of their young people move away. True, there are towns like this in Ohio, but I found many more nice, prosperous, non-suburban, good old-fashioned hometown kinds of places in Ohio than I've ever seen back east. 2) the people. Maybe it's that blending of everything American that ClevelandBill talks about, but I found the people in Ohio in general to be a solid, decent, salt-of-the-earth bunch. A nice balance between Southern gregariousness and Northeastern deeply-rooted loyalties, Ohioans also seemed to strike a good medium between hanging onto the tried and true, and welcoming innovation. It was nice to live in a place where people generally would not try to hold back someone who strove for some high level of achievement, or wanted to risk trying something new and different, but where this could happen without the urban Northeastern pressure to rule the world, or risk being regarded as a failure if you ever fell short of such a lofty goal. In Ohio, if you wanted to go for the gold, more power to you and all the best. If not, that was okay too. You still mattered as long as you were a decent person. And, if you went for the gold and instead of making it you ended up sprawled out flat on your face, well, there would be friends there to pick you up. Ohio's people seemed to me to have nicely balanced attitudes in many ways, and that was good. 3) the landscape. Yes, the landscape. I do love the variety of spectacular outdoor scenery in the Northeast, and, being an outdoorsy sort, very much enjoy the varied opportunities for outdoor recreation that this affords, but I found a subtle beauty about the Midwestern landscape which might all too often be missed by snooty Northeasterners who disdainfully--and blindly--dismiss the Midwest as "flyover country." Think of low rolling hills covered in fall colors, or the view in springtime, through early-morning mist, across a newly cultivated field, to a line of freshly budding trees in the background, and those of you familiar with Ohio will understand what I mean when I say that the state's scenery may not be spectacular, but in many places it is beautiful.
All of this said, I do want to ask ClevelandBill about Lake Erie. I lived in central Ohio, and never visited the big lake, so I was not personally familiar with its waters, but I always used to hear that Lake Erie was horribly polluted. Can you really swim in Lake Erie? [Summers to spend on our beautiful beaches (which because Lake Erie is a lake, not the ocean, has a temperature in summer conducive to swimming). quote, ClevelandBill]. It's been quite a few years since my time in Ohio, and maybe the water has been cleaned up since then, or maybe I just heard wrong in the first place, but if Erie really is clean enough for water recreation to be enjoyable, well, that's one more plus for a wonderful state.
I've read this forum, and I know Ohio is having some problems now. The economy will get better, though. Hang in there, Ohioans, because, despite the current rough period, you really do live in a great state.
Geez, now I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. Take care, all.
I was really glad to see this positive view of a state where I don't live now, but where I did live once, which I will always remember warmly (and--who knows--maybe I'll find my way there again some day). I lived in three states before the age of nine, when my family moved to the Boston area, where I grew up. I went to college in Ohio, and continued living there for several years afterward, and really felt a deep affinity and affection for Ohio. During those years I felt tugged in two directions, because I loved the day-to-day life in Ohio--friendly, down-to-earth people and real all-American hometown kinds of communities--while my family and old friends were back in MA. I found my way back east when a recession, which hit the old industrial states the hardest of any region of the country, put me out of work for two years, forcing me to move back east and seek work in an area less severely affected by that particular recession. Life moves on, and I've never been back to Ohio, but I've always missed the Buckeye State.
I could tell you plenty of features I liked about Ohio, but here are three: 1) The towns. In the Northeast, many towns outside the large urban areas are gray and decrepit, economically depressed and seeing most of their young people move away. True, there are towns like this in Ohio, but I found many more nice, prosperous, non-suburban, good old-fashioned hometown kinds of places in Ohio than I've ever seen back east. 2) the people. Maybe it's that blending of everything American that ClevelandBill talks about, but I found the people in Ohio in general to be a solid, decent, salt-of-the-earth bunch. A nice balance between Southern gregariousness and Northeastern deeply-rooted loyalties, Ohioans also seemed to strike a good medium between hanging onto the tried and true, and welcoming innovation. It was nice to live in a place where people generally would not try to hold back someone who strove for some high level of achievement, or wanted to risk trying something new and different, but where this could happen without the urban Northeastern pressure to rule the world, or risk being regarded as a failure if you ever fell short of such a lofty goal. In Ohio, if you wanted to go for the gold, more power to you and all the best. If not, that was okay too. You still mattered as long as you were a decent person. And, if you went for the gold and instead of making it you ended up sprawled out flat on your face, well, there would be friends there to pick you up. Ohio's people seemed to me to have nicely balanced attitudes in many ways, and that was good. 3) the landscape. Yes, the landscape. I do love the variety of spectacular outdoor scenery in the Northeast, and, being an outdoorsy sort, very much enjoy the varied opportunities for outdoor recreation that this affords, but I found a subtle beauty about the Midwestern landscape which might all too often be missed by snooty Northeasterners who disdainfully--and blindly--dismiss the Midwest as "flyover country." Think of low rolling hills covered in fall colors, or the view in springtime, through early-morning mist, across a newly cultivated field, to a line of freshly budding trees in the background, and those of you familiar with Ohio will understand what I mean when I say that the state's scenery may not be spectacular, but in many places it is beautiful.
All of this said, I do want to ask ClevelandBill about Lake Erie. I lived in central Ohio, and never visited the big lake, so I was not personally familiar with its waters, but I always used to hear that Lake Erie was horribly polluted. Can you really swim in Lake Erie? [Summers to spend on our beautiful beaches (which because Lake Erie is a lake, not the ocean, has a temperature in summer conducive to swimming). quote, ClevelandBill]. It's been quite a few years since my time in Ohio, and maybe the water has been cleaned up since then, or maybe I just heard wrong in the first place, but if Erie really is clean enough for water recreation to be enjoyable, well, that's one more plus for a wonderful state.
I've read this forum, and I know Ohio is having some problems now. The economy will get better, though. Hang in there, Ohioans, because, despite the current rough period, you really do live in a great state.
Geez, now I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. Take care, all.
Really enjoyed your post! I've lived in OH for 36+ years now; there are times that I really want to get out of here; but mostly it is when the gray and dreary winter sets in and SAD sets in. I've really felt the effect since I turned 40+. Anyways, no place is perfect, that's for sure and Ohio certainly has many positives as you've listed above. I have to say that the people in Ohio that I've met are truly salt of the earth type people who have deep roots with community and family. This is one thing that I know that I would miss if I move somewhere else (I'm still not dismissing moving due to economic opportunity for myself and my kids (two of which will be graduating from college and need to find professional jobs). I would not miss the sunless days in the winter, no way, but I would miss having people in my life whom I've known for years, those people and their families who I know can be trusted with doing what they say they're going to do. I can't stand shallow people. Unfortunately, I got a sneek glimps of shallow behavior a few weeks ago when I travelled to my company's international convention and spent some time with some people - the shallowness definitely reared it's head. It's making me think twice and thrice about what I'm going to do and where to possibly relocate if we do. I hope that this makes sense. Thanks for the great post.
it's been good reading most of these posts. myself along with some others from my workplace might be relocating to ohio. i have to say that the good things that have been said heavily outweigh the bad. does anyone have any information/opinions on the twinsburg/akron area? i'd appreciate hearing anything!
Thanks
I've been to Ohio and I loved it! I haven't lived there but have visited on several occasions and I have to say it's one of my top 10 places to live (Cincy or Columbus). The countryside is beautiful, and there's a lot of history in Ohio. The people were very friendly to me every time I was there. If you don't like a place, then move. I'm sure there are bad areas of Ohio, just like there are anywhere but you have to go wherever it makes you happy. As for me, Ohio is a great place.
Really enjoyed your post! I've lived in OH for 36+ years now; there are times that I really want to get out of here; but mostly it is when the gray and dreary winter sets in and SAD sets in. I've really felt the effect since I turned 40+. Anyways, no place is perfect, that's for sure and Ohio certainly has many positives as you've listed above. I have to say that the people in Ohio that I've met are truly salt of the earth type people who have deep roots with community and family. This is one thing that I know that I would miss if I move somewhere else (I'm still not dismissing moving due to economic opportunity for myself and my kids (two of which will be graduating from college and need to find professional jobs). I would not miss the sunless days in the winter, no way, but I would miss having people in my life whom I've known for years, those people and their families who I know can be trusted with doing what they say they're going to do. I can't stand shallow people. Unfortunately, I got a sneek glimps of shallow behavior a few weeks ago when I travelled to my company's international convention and spent some time with some people - the shallowness definitely reared it's head. It's making me think twice and thrice about what I'm going to do and where to possibly relocate if we do. I hope that this makes sense. Thanks for the great post.
Hi Donna7. Your post makes a lot of sense to me. Being that I've had a tug-of-war going on inside myself for quite a few years now, between my deep attachment to the presence of family, old friends, roots, and history in the Boston area, along with my enjoyment of the outdoor recreation possibilities in the Northeast, and on the other hand my decided preference for the people, the communities, and the everyday way of life I found when I lived in OH, I know very well how difficult it can be to feel yourself being very much a part of a certain place, at the same time feeling that certain features of that place could be improved upon in ways you could find somewhere else. You mentioned weather. I myself find that I take weather more in stride the older I get, but if you are affected by SAD, that must make the gray winters in OH especially difficult, and give you a particularly compelling reason to feel drawn to a place with milder winters, or at least with longer days during the wintertime. Yet, in reading your post I do get a sense of how deep your roots are in OH. It's not easy being pulled in two directions like that.
You mentioned shallowness in people. I have to say that my travels since I've been an adult, even when I was an older child, have been limited to the east coast, both north and south, and to the years I lived in OH, so there's a lot of the country I'm not acquainted with. Still, I do hear many, many people talk about the superficial friendliness, but basic shallowness of people in, for example, CA and AZ. It's also true that I've found, in those areas I am familiar with, that you'll meet all kinds of individuals, but somehow the way it all adds up, the way the people are in general, or typically, really does vary from place to place.
I have a theory about the shallowness I frequently hear exists among people in CA, in the Southwest, in parts of the South (southern FL, Atlanta, NC, especially around the Triangle area). My idea is that so many people have moved there from other parts of the country that it really can have an effect on the general character of the people there. What I suspect is that many people who have what I would consider shallow values are the ones who would find it more important to move to a year-round playground than to stay where they have roots, history, family, and old friends. The Sun Belt hot spots may actually get enough of those people that it affects the overall character of these places. At the same time, people who have what I would consider deeper values, whose roots are in the Northeast, the Midwest, or parts of the South passed over by the Sun Belt rush, are more likely to stay where they are, close to their roots, and to reinforce the stable character of those regions.
Of course this is a very simple model. There are many reasons people move from one place to another, and to try and determine the character of a place simply on the basis of this one idea I've tried to explain here, doesn't come close to covering everything. Still, I think that this notion of attitudes, and the kind of people who move away and the kind of peple inclined to stay where they are--and which regions tend to have more of each kind--may well have enough of a significant effect on the character of a place to be noticed.
You might notice that I included the Northeast in the regions I view positively in terms of my theory here. It's not all bad. In my earlier post I did mention some negatives about the Northeast, and to me those features of the region are serious negatives. There are other things I can't stand about the Northeast as well. But I'll give credit where it's due, and acknowledge that the Northeast does, in many areas, have that deeply rooted sense of community. For me, it happens to be that in Ohio I found much more presence of the characteristics I value most deeply when it comes to the flow of everyday life. I know very well how many reasons there must be that you would like to stay there. At the same time, I realize that SAD gives you a compelling reason to want to get away from those gray winters, and you mentioned economic opportunity as well. The unfortunate truth is that more people will have to leave the old industrial states, just as I left OH, for lack of work, because the turnaround is happening slowly. It will happen, though, and many people in this region in a position to stay, who choose to do so, will benifit from staying close to their roots, because the old Midwestern industrial heartland in many ways is fundamentally solid, and basically good, and this will stand the region in good stead over the long haul.
I hear you all on the downside of living in the big O. I grew up there, and thank the maker I can say I am FROM Ohio. In many ways, going back to Ohio is like going back in time. Race is a HUGE issue. Its odd to come from a city like Seattle, and then walk the streets of Columbus (and Columbus is better than the smaller Ohio Cities) and have to think that you might have to deal with a race as if its 1970. Its nutty. The summers are too humid, with thunderstsorms and more heat...heat at NIGHT, and the bugs. Oh man...I dont miss it. Even the beloved Buckeyes are more enjoyable away from Ohio because you get to enjoy it in m-o-d-e-r-a-t-i-o-n. Less smokers...Less Drinkers... MORE Educated people...fewer "modified" pickup Trucks...it all adds up.
I am glad I grew up in Ohio, but OH am I glad I dont LIVE in Ohio anymore.
I read about ohio to get some ideas about it.My experience is driving through it in a truck,the split speed limits drive truckers crazy.I think of leaving arizona and im more concearned with affordable housing.If you move out to the west coast,az n ca and nv i recommend preparing for the shock of housing prices,its crazy with the low wages.the crime and low lifes are everywhere,so you really cant get away from it.ive been about everywhere and good and bad things can be said about many places.
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might be moving there
