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Dear Lusitan,
Yes in my experience less than1% of the times a tank is found to be leaking upon removal after it is said to have passed both a tank test and soil evaluation. That is why it is important to have a reputable company do the inspections. Always ask how long have they been in business and do they carry errors and omission insurance. As far as identifying what is in the soil sample I have always ask for a graph from the laboratory that clearly identifies if the sample contains heating oil. This avoids the error of having black top from the driveway identified as evidence the tank is leaking.
I believe there is also a grant program through the state (I could be wrong on that) where you pay a fee of a couple of hundred $$$ and they pay for the whole removal of the underground tank and installation of a new tank and testing. Here is the info that I was given by a realtor in Sussex cty. My sister went through this and I think she said it cost her something like $800.
Not sure if this is still valid but definitely worth looking into.
We sold a house in Sparta last July and used ATS. Realtor highly recommended we remove the tank and we are glad we did. No one would show any interest in the house with the tank underground, even though it was not leaking (pressure tested every year) and fully insured.
We paid an up front fee, and ATS took care of filing all paperwork and removing the tank. It took a little while to file everything, but once approved, it took about 2 weeks to schedule and remove the tank. We actually got an offer on the house while the tank was being removed.
actank is somewhat correct..there is a grant program for the cleanup activities as well but it's a little more involved than just saying "you can't make more than 250K/yr". Your net worth comes into play as well - less than 500K not including your primary residence or retirement plans...plus you must prove that it's a financial hardship. The grant program is still thru the njeda but you must go thru the NJDEP first. If anyone is interested...you can find the information on the NJDEP SRP website under UST fund. There are also loan programs available for those who do not qualify for a grant. But I'm with you lusitan... let it be the sellers nightmare - let them go through the process before you take ownership of the home. It can be very stressful!
Wiley is right about the stress. I did not think we would make it thru our remediation. All I did was cry, even in church.
As a buyer, don't put yourself thru this. IMO, if the seller is interested in selling their home , the tank would have been removed.
After it was all done, and I had my no futhur action letter from the DEP, My house went on the market, and my husband got himself transfered, because I could no longer live in the house or tyhhe state for that matter.
It's my understanding that it is not possible to determine with 100% accuracy whether the soil is contaminated or not until the tank is removed from the ground.
In other words, if you test the soil with the tank still in the ground, you may get a clean test result but when you go to remove the tank you may find contamination.
Alternatively, when you test the soil you may get a dirty test that would seem to indicate contamination, but it's not possible to determine whether the contamination is minor (e.g. costs 1K to clean up) or serious (250K).
With all that uncertainty, I see no reason to buy this headache. If it's so simple, the seller can remove it and deal with the risks involved.
We sold a house in Sparta last July and used ATS. Realtor highly recommended we remove the tank and we are glad we did. No one would show any interest in the house with the tank underground, even though it was not leaking (pressure tested every year) and fully insured.
We paid an up front fee, and ATS took care of filing all paperwork and removing the tank. It took a little while to file everything, but once approved, it took about 2 weeks to schedule and remove the tank. We actually got an offer on the house while the tank was being removed.
My sister is in Jefferson and did the exact same thing. She was very happy with the whole process overall...
Wiley is right about the stress. I did not think we would make it thru our remediation. All I did was cry, even in church.
As a buyer, don't put yourself thru this. IMO, if the seller is interested in selling their home , the tank would have been removed.
After it was all done, and I had my no futhur action letter from the DEP, My house went on the market, and my husband got himself transfered, because I could no longer live in the house or tyhhe state for that matter.
Diane G
I've actually had customer die on me in the middle of the process! It is stressful... and as a contractor, we sometimes take alot of "dog's abuse" as homeowner need to blame someone... It's a stressful field to work in. When the tank doesn't leak, we are heroes! When a tank leaks...we are rotten bastids!
Wow, you guys! What a great help. I am in the same predicament...years ago, oil tank was 'filled with sand and abandoned' and a new tank was placed above ground. The house that I am considering has been on the market for over a year with two buyers who walked away from the deal...so I got suspicious and yes, there was an oil tank underground. Now...here is my question....if I pay to have the tank removed, even though they are claimning that it has been filled with sand...then what? What if the soil is rotten? Then what gets done? Like how much could this run into?
I've heard this happen to people, but it got taken care of. Are there long term effects?
Wow, you guys! What a great help. I am in the same predicament...years ago, oil tank was 'filled with sand and abandoned' and a new tank was placed above ground. The house that I am considering has been on the market for over a year with two buyers who walked away from the deal...so I got suspicious and yes, there was an oil tank underground. Now...here is my question....if I pay to have the tank removed, even though they are claimning that it has been filled with sand...then what? What if the soil is rotten? Then what gets done? Like how much could this run into?
I've heard this happen to people, but it got taken care of. Are there long term effects?
The reason to have it taken out & tested BEFORE you buy the house is so that the current owner is liable for the condition, not you. Have your attorney write the inspection/removal demand so that you have the right to walk away, losing nothing more than the inspection cost at worst.
if I pay to have the tank removed, even though they are claimning that it has been filled with sand...then what? What if the soil is rotten? Then what gets done? Like how much could this run into? I've heard this happen to people, but it got taken care of. Are there long term effects?
You will want to have a soil test performed, and if there is contamination (which is the big risk if the tank leaked) then the sellers need to take responsibility for paying for the environmental remediation. Do not take ownership of the property until:
(1) the tank is removed
(2) the soil is tested (by a testing company that YOU pay for, thus you can be sure the job is getting done right)
(3) the soil tests come back 100% clean
If in step #3 above the soil tests come back dirty (showing some contamination) then you have to make sure that the sellers agree to pay for ALL of the costs of the environmental remediation and that it's done before closing. Because once you take ownership, you own the problem!
This means not only actually getting a contractor out to assess the damage and perform the environmental clean up (check with Wiley on these boards, she is an expert on this cleanup process), but then you have to have the soil tested again to make sure it was cleaned up correctly and completely.
And then the real kicker -- you want the state of NJ to verify that everything has been cleaned up to 100% satisfaction, and so you will need the state to issue a "No Further Action" letter, basically stating that the state checked it out and everything is cleaned up and no further action is necessary. Since this process can take months, you will want to either (a) delay closing until all that is completed or (b) insist on a substantial deposit that the seller will deposit with YOUR attorney's escrow account, so that IF the state comes back, say, 3 months down the road and says you need to perform further clean up, you have the seller's money there to use for that clean up. If the state comes back and says all clear, then of course your attorney releases the escrow deposit and the seller gets his money back. This escrow amount must be substantial, because the state could come back and require expensive additional remediation -- I would say accept no less than 25K seller escrow deposit.
Again, there are so many people surrounding you who will try to tell you "it's no big deal" because they all want the deal to go through, but YOU will be the one on the hook for potentially six-figure liability (not to mention environmental risks) if something does go wrong. Anyone who tells you it's no problem or not a big deal, ask THEM to indemnify you against any losses due to the underground oil tank, and watch how quickly they go quiet.
There's a poster Diane Glam on these boards who shared a horrendous story of a 200K+ remediation she had to go through, a nightmare. Luckily for her, the homeowner insurance policy she had covered it, because back in the "old days" before the homeowners insurance companies got wise to this problem, underground oil tanks used to be covered by homeowners insurance. Nowadays, with new homeowners insurance policies, they will write a policy for a property that has an underground tank, but they will EXCLUDE any damage related to the tank.
There's a reason insurance companies don't want to touch these underground oil tanks -- they are potential ticking time bombs of expensive liability! God forbid the leak extends to neighboring properties (which is all too common especially if the tank is located near the border) and you could be looking at liability for the cleanup of more than just one property.
Bottom line is, you're smart to be concerned about this. Kudos to you for doing your research. Wiley and Diane on these boards are great resources for this information. Don't let anyone push you into anything you're not 100% comfortable with -- it's your safety and financial future that's on the line, not theirs! In this market, there are plenty of other fish in the sea, and no seller is in a position to refuse to take care of this before closing. (Frankly, I surprised you even offered to pay for removal, this should be the SELLER'S responsibility, especially in this buyer's market).
Hopefully you are still in attorney review and can get all of this set in stone before spending another dime. Be firm on this point - it's a serious problem. If the seller tells you you're paranoid, well, ask HIM to take the risk and deal with the problem ...
Don't get too attached to any one house, there are many, many others out there that don't have this problem.
We sold our house in Fair Lawn, 4 years ago. Our buyer was having problems getting insurance with the existing outside buried oil tank that was 15 years old.
As the seller, we did not want to loose our buyer and paid about $3,000 for a company to empty the oil, fill with a special foam and to install a new oil tank in the basement. This was satisfactory for the insurance company.
If you go that route, get several estimates. Ask your realtor who they may recommend. We had 2 estimates. The first one, I did not trust at all. The second one was great and was cheaper.
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