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This discussion points to what I didn't fully understand about "white privilege" until the gruesome death of George Floyd precipitated many conversations with members of the black community.
I'm STILL waiting to be able to "cash in" on this white privilege that I supposedly have. Yes, I'm an older white guy who spent close to 40 years of his life working in factories, anywhere from 40 to 70+ hours a week, with occasional rotating shift work, thrown in the mix. Nothing was handed to me, whatsoever, I earned everything I have. I wanted a new car, write the check. Want a nice house, to call home? Apply for a mortgage, and write the check every month. Need some food and clothing? Again, write the check, drawing the money from the bank account that was fueled by my job.......a job that I was able to keep, because I showed up for work every day.
I wasn't a druggie or alcoholic, or crazy driver, or thief, or rabble rouser, so I never had to worry about any interactions, good or bad, with law enforcement. It isn't all that difficult, as long as you're willing to put a little effort into it.....
With regards to real estate... If you search the early beginnings of the Federal Housing Administration (FHA) you will note that that the didn't make loans to African Americans in the early post WWII era... Additionally there were real estate covenants and red lining that contained many African Americans and other minorities into older inner city neighborhoods creating ghettos. Even those African Americans of means couldn't afford to move out because many couldn't afford to make the large down payment to secure a mortgage (FHA only requires 3% but was not offered to African Americans) even if they were able to overcome the larger down payments of 20% or more...discriminatory housing practices put in place by covenants and enforced formally and informally by realtors would still limit options. So you couldn't get a loan to buy a house in a poor African American neighborhood because banks wouldn't lend to you (red lining) so you could only rent. If you owned a property in one of these areas it may not appraise for what you need to fix it up because values are suppressed and... you are redlined.
Many whites, especially returning GIs could get VA loans or even FHA and did.. getting home loans and loans to go back to college to continue their journey into the middle class. Many left the cities (white flight) and bought new homes in the suburbs (as encouraged by FHA)..African Americans began to populate these areas (left by whites) only to be redline again thus forced to go to private financing of lease purchase from unscrupulous landowners who were in effect forcing them to rent again because the interest rates were so high..they never gained any equity.. Some of the whites in these transitional areas were also conned into selling low to these investors who then took in African Americans under these lease purchase arrangements (see block busting) .
Ultimately most white families that were able to move and establish themselves in the suburbs.. cashed in on that wealth and transferred it to their kids and eventually their grand kids in the form of selling the family homestead or using home equity lines to borrow against to assist them with buying homes, cars, college education etc... All of which was made possible by the Federal Government providing that initial "boost". African American GIs returning from the war were not afforded that same luxury. Had that system not discriminated against African Americans many would have had the same advantages as their white counterparts and would have followed them into the middle class.. Many ultimately did.. but in smaller numbers and not in any large numbers until the 1970s you saw the rise of middle income African Americans in places like Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, Washington, DC etc.. when many of these lending and real estate practices became illegal. But from the late 1940s to the end of the 1960s that was not the case. So African American families did not begin to realized the gains from homeownership wealth transfer until the 70s, nearly 20years after their white counter parts, and that is at the beginning of these mortgages which would not be paid off until the 90s to begin the wealth transfer depending on the housing markets.
Again, not to BLAME whites who took advantage of a system that worked in their favor but to UNDERSTAND why there may be certain conditions put in place then that effect the outcomes we see today especially when it comes to the wealth gap from wealth passed from one generation to the next. Once recognized, how do we continue to move forward and not repeat the mistakes of the past.. so that we ALL benefit
Last edited by Woodlands; 12-07-2020 at 08:32 AM..
With regards to real estate... Many whites, especially returning GIs could get VA loans or even FHA and did.. getting home loans and loans to go back to college to continue their journey into the middle class. Many left the cities (white flight) and bought new homes in the suburbs (as encouraged by FHA)..African Americans began to populate these areas (left by whites) only to be redline again thus forced to go to private financing of lease purchase from unscrupulous landowners who were in effect forcing them to rent again because the interest rates were so high..they never gained any equity.. Some of the whites in these transitional areas were also conned into selling low to these investors who then took in African Americans under these lease purchase arrangements (see block busting) .
Interesting thoughts, but not always accurate. My father, for instance, was in his mid 20s, already established in a job, and married, when he was drafted into the US Army, when WWII broke out. He was yanked out of his life for a little over 3 years, and began serving as a front-line, combat soldier.
He returned in one piece, thank God, but resuming his life wasn't easy. His employer had replaced him with someone else, when he was drafted, as they wanted to stay in business. Therefore, they didn't simply re-hire him. And the economy was still in "wartime mode", for a while, after the war ended, so jobs weren't plentiful. In my father's case, he wound up working 3 part-time jobs, concurrently, in an effort to make ends meet, economically. After several years, he found a job as a sales representative for an industrial equipment distributor. But it's difficult to get along on an entry level paycheck, when you're approaching you mid-30s, with financial responsibilities. Over time, he worked his way upward, but it's tough, when you've lost the initial 5-6 years of your working years, when in many cases, you're laying the foundation for your future.
Long story short, my father worked hard, and did the best he could, to provide for his family. But for me, there was no "generational transfer of wealth", as the above post implies happened for many white families. I firmly believe that the stresses my father endured, led to his rather young demise. And all I inherited was responsibilities, which I simply accepted, and plodded forward, the best that I could. And THAT is why I get annoyed when I hear about "white privilege", and I apologize for possibly taking this discussion sideways.
Interesting thoughts, but not always accurate. My father, for instance, was in his mid 20s, already established in a job, and married, when he was drafted into the US Army, when WWII broke out. He was yanked out of his life for a little over 3 years, and began serving as a front-line, combat soldier.
He returned in one piece, thank God, but resuming his life wasn't easy. His employer had replaced him with someone else, when he was drafted, as they wanted to stay in business. Therefore, they didn't simply re-hire him. And the economy was still in "wartime mode", for a while, after the war ended, so jobs weren't plentiful. In my father's case, he wound up working 3 part-time jobs, concurrently, in an effort to make ends meet, economically. After several years, he found a job as a sales representative for an industrial equipment distributor. But it's difficult to get along on an entry level paycheck, when you're approaching you mid-30s, with financial responsibilities. Over time, he worked his way upward, but it's tough, when you've lost the initial 5-6 years of your working years, when in many cases, you're laying the foundation for your future.
Long story short, my father worked hard, and did the best he could, to provide for his family. But for me, there was no "generational transfer of wealth", as the above post implies happened for many white families. I firmly believe that the stresses my father endured, led to his rather young demise. And all I inherited was responsibilities, which I simply accepted, and plodded forward, the best that I could. And THAT is why I get annoyed when I hear about "white privilege", and I apologize for possibly taking this discussion sideways.
Thanks for sharing that and for your father's service/sacrifice. Certainly there are likely many stories like yours based on people's individual circumstances that we need to be mindful of and appreciate...
I'm STILL waiting to be able to "cash in" on this white privilege that I supposedly have. Yes, I'm an older white guy who spent close to 40 years of his life working in factories, anywhere from 40 to 70+ hours a week, with occasional rotating shift work, thrown in the mix. Nothing was handed to me, whatsoever, I earned everything I have. I wanted a new car, write the check. Want a nice house, to call home? Apply for a mortgage, and write the check every month. Need some food and clothing? Again, write the check, drawing the money from the bank account that was fueled by my job.......a job that I was able to keep, because I showed up for work every day.
I wasn't a druggie or alcoholic, or crazy driver, or thief, or rabble rouser, so I never had to worry about any interactions, good or bad, with law enforcement. It isn't all that difficult, as long as you're willing to put a little effort into it.....
White privilege does not mean that every white person lives a life of care free opulence. What it means is that you’re not facing obstacles/social barriers simply because you are white. White Americans are roughly 70 plus percent of the population. There are social privileges in belonging to dominant social group. How many times have you told someone where you were from and heard “I’m mean where are you really from?” Many POC can relate to that because we are often “otherized” or not considered “real Americans.” Have you ever walked in a store and been immediately followed for no other reason their your skin color? Do you have to search for specific shows/channels to see representation of people who look like you? Have you ever wanted/needed to move but had to be cognizant about something as simple as a haircut because the potential area you’re moving to may have so few people with hair texture like yourself that local barbers have little to no experience dealing with that texture? Have you ever been told as a white male that your natural hair texture not hairstyle but texture of hair determined by genetics is “unprofessional?” Have you ever been the only white person in your class or job for months or years? If you do well are you told that you are a good role model for others of your race? Have you ever been stopped by police or had because it looked like you didn’t belong even though you weren’t doing anything unlawful. There are too many viral videos of black and brown people being accosted by police officers called on them by white people who didn’t think the person belong. The fact that you made comment about interactions with police proof of your white privilege. Look up the black pharmaceutical exec in NJ who was roughed up by cops who didn’t believe he and his family lived in an affluent gated community.
Having white privilege doesn't mean that white people have never endured challenges and distressing events. The truth is that growing up as a white person means never having to consider race for the majority of one's life. It's not something white people notice because as members of the dominant social group whiteness is treated as the default.
White privilege does not mean that every white person lives a life of care free opulence. What it means is that you’re not facing obstacles/social barriers simply because you are white. White Americans are roughly 70 plus percent of the population. There are social privileges in belonging to dominant social group. How many times have you told someone where you were from and heard “I’m mean where are you really from?” Many POC can relate to that because we are often “otherized” or not considered “real Americans.” Have you ever walked in a store and been immediately followed for no other reason their your skin color? Do you have to search for specific shows/channels to see representation of people who look like you? Have you ever wanted/needed to move but had to be cognizant about something as simple as a haircut because the potential area you’re moving to may have so few people with hair texture like yourself that local barbers have little to no experience dealing with that texture? Have you ever been told as a white male that your natural hair texture not hairstyle but texture of hair determined by genetics is “unprofessional?” Have you ever been the only white person in your class or job for months or years? If you do well are you told that you are a good role model for others of your race? Have you ever been stopped by police or had because it looked like you didn’t belong even though you weren’t doing anything unlawful. There are too many viral videos of black and brown people being accosted by police officers called on them by white people who didn’t think the person belong. The fact that you made comment about interactions with police proof of your white privilege. Look up the black pharmaceutical exec in NJ who was roughed up by cops who didn’t believe he and his family lived in an affluent gated community.
Having white privilege doesn't mean that white people have never endured challenges and distressing events. The truth is that growing up as a white person means never having to consider race for the majority of one's life. It's not something white people notice because as members of the dominant social group whiteness is treated as the default.
I understand what you're getting at, but realistically speaking, EVERYONE faces various challenges, as we grow up and live out our lives. It's how we perceive these challenges and overcome them (or not), that makes all the difference.
I understand what you're getting at, but realistically speaking, EVERYONE faces various challenges, as we grow up and live out our lives. It's how we perceive these challenges and overcome them (or not), that makes all the difference.
The point is that white privilege means you’re not facing that many more challenges and discrimination because of your race. There’s challenges and obstacles you don’t even consider or things you do daily that you take for granted that a POC may have to think twice about. Look at it this way, if you’re a short white man there are social stereotypes/stigmas you’re going to face, if you’re a short black man you’re going to face not only those “short man stereotypes” but also racial discrimination and the challenges involved navigating society as a racial minority. For example, study found that white people view black men as larger and more threatening than white men of the same size.
I am a WASP and the OP might well not be racist. It could simply be they are Black and have concerns about racial issues where they are looking to relocate to and a Black realtor might be best be able to educate them. Totally understandable to me.
I think the op is a troll attempting to manipulate the coversation into some controversial $chit and then sit back and watch it as it hits the fan. I'm always suspicious of first time posters whose first post is they create a thread that gives so very little information.
I think the op is a troll attempting to manipulate the coversation into some controversial $chit and then sit back and watch it as it hits the fan. I'm always suspicious of first time posters whose first post is they create a thread that gives so very little information.
My advice is proceed with caution
Good point!
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