CBMania: The DCEU, MCU, Sonyverse, Foxverse, and Beyond! (popular, films, theaters)
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Not an inherent one. But I do admit that DC's movie-verse is a mess. They are five movies in, and so far they have made one good movie.
Man of Steel is a fine reboot. More than fine, in fact. BvS:UE is a great movie with the single greatest Batman action scene ever. Maybe those movies aren't your game where tone and content are concerned, but that doesn't diminish what they are. Not everyone will, or should, like the same movies, nor should all movies be attempts to satisfy the widest swath of the GA.
That's where WB frakked up with Justice League. They shifted gears from the darker-hued universe they were building and wanted to join Marvel in the Rainbow Kingdom. They cut tons of critical footage and reshot and recolored existing footage to water everything down to a pudding-like consistency they thought the GA would swill. They wanted their year-end bonuses and didn't care about the movie after a certain point. Hopefully Tsujihara will be nowhere near DC Films from now on.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
I liked Ant-Man. Saying I loved it would be over-egging the pudding. It was a fun popcorn flick. That's it. I haven't loved a Marvel movie since the last Captain America flick. I think the Marvel movie-verse has just about run its course. Time for a rest, then a re-do.
I think you're somewhere between like/love. You said before it's a good movie because it's a "fun" movie. So is Suicide Squad, which, honestly, is way more entertaining than Ant-Man. And from a box office pov, if they don't make a SS2, they're just leaving bags of money at the curb.
BvS:UE is a great movie with the single greatest Batman action scene ever.
One great scene does not make a great movie. And BvS was a bad movie.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
That's where WB frakked up with Justice League. They shifted gears from the darker-hued universe they were building and wanted to join Marvel in the Rainbow Kingdom.
That's largely my point. If the DC movies have had any vision or sense of direction up till now, I haven't seen it. I get the feeling most of their executive meetings boil down to, "Let's see if this works! No? Well, let's see if something else works! No? Well, how about this? Nope, that didn't work either. Make it more like Avengers? Umm, no. Well, how about...? "
Ad infinitum. Just stop until you figure out where you're going already!
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
I think you're somewhere between like/love. You said before it's a good movie because it's a "fun" movie.
Yup. But I wouldn't say I love it. Its lack of a compelling villain and the rather cartoonish sidekicks keep it from love.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
So is Suicide Squad, which, honestly, is way more entertaining than Ant-Man.
SUICIDE SQUAD was about as entertaining as watching a burning sack of pots and pans tumble down a broken escalator. Margot Robbie was the only redeeming factor in that entire wreck.
One great scene does not make a great movie. And BvS was a bad movie.
One man's opinion. Also, you said you didn't watch all of it. LOL.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
That's largely my point. If the DC movies have had any vision or sense of direction up till now, I haven't seen it. I get the feeling most of their executive meetings boil down to, "Let's see if this works! No? Well, let's see if something else works! No? Well, how about this? Nope, that didn't work either. Make it more like Avengers? Umm, no. Well, how about...? "
Like I said, the intent was to fashion a universe darker in tone than Marvel's. They said so five years ago. Something to contrast Marvel's middle-of-the-road shtick. The problem is that while quite a few comics collectors were digging the contrast, they noticed they were vastly outnumbered by general audiences that were reared on the old Superman movies and the Batman movies. In other words, movie watchers who were unfamiliar with what writers like Steve Englehart, Doug Moench, Dennis O'Neil, John Byrne, Frank Miller, Grant Morrison, Geoff Johns, Scott Snyder, et. al., laid down over the course of decades. The "critics" were lapping up Marvel's "one joke every 5-10 minutes, based on the character" formula, and the GA was pouring money into it, and a few idiots at WB decided they should follow suit.
That was not the way to go, and retooling Justice League into a tonally inconsistent movie is the proof. They did do one thing just like Marvel, though: They wasted a good villain. They should have saved Ciaran Hinds' voice for Darkseid. I could listen to Hinds talk all day. What a voice!
I did watch the whole thing. I even suffered through the entire extra special super duper DVD release. Wonder Woman was great. I liked Alfred. Lex Luthor made Jar Jar Binks look like Lawrence Olivier. The rest of the movie was a loud mess.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Like I said, the intent was to fashion a universe darker in tone than Marvel's.
Dark wasn't the problem. Unlikable, illogical heroes and boring stories were the problem.
Zack Snyder can be really, really good at the visual look of a movie. He's certainly much better than Whedon in that regard. But Snyder fails to connect his heroes with the audience, make villains in any way compelling, and basic logic of events and character motivation elude him.
I don't care how good a director someone is. If the script is bad, all the directing talent in the world can't save it. (See THE LAST JEDI.) The DC scripts have been bad. Even their best effort to date (WONDER WOMAN) wasn't without its problems.
The whole franchise needs to stop, come up with a vision and a direction, then hand it to a really talented writer. And all that needs to be done before one scene is shot or actor is hired or T-shirt contract is signed.
Believe me, there's nothing boring about Man of Steel. Same for BvS. I like that the latter does not follow the "get to the next scene for more action" template a lot of CBMs use. But if you didn't like Watchmen, then BvS may not be your cuppa, either.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
The whole franchise needs to stop, come up with a vision and a direction, then hand it to a really talented writer. And all that needs to be done before one scene is shot or actor is hired or T-shirt contract is signed.
Fox hasn't done it, and they used Days of Future Past to retcon some events. WB doesn't have to "stop" before the next scene is shot or the next contract is signed, either.
Shazam! is about to start filming. Wonder Woman 2 starts filming in the summer. Those movies are set to roll.
Batman was just fine in BvS and he was a helluva lot better than the Batman we got in 1989-1998. I don't see what the b.f.d. is with heavy weapons-wielding commando collateral damage.
So Superman killed Zod at the end of MoS. So, what. Byrne had Superman open a canister of kryptonite and off not one, not two, but three bad Kryptonians (Faora was one of them).
Now we'll probably see a return to Clark bumping into desks (that somehow don't get damaged) at the Daily Planet and Superman moving birds' nests out of the way so city employees don't accidentally knock them down while they trim trees away from power lines. You wanted Silver Age Superman back? You're probably gonna get something a closer to him in the next solo movie.
Believe me, there's nothing boring about Man of Steel.
There's nothing boring about watching someone fall down a flight of stairs either. Boredom isn't the problem. Superman and Batman lately aren't just dark and broody. They're downright unlikeable. You can have dark, flawed heroes and still have them be likeable. Watch L.A. Confidential some time.
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Originally Posted by AFtrEFkt
Fox hasn't done it, and they used Days of Future Past to retcon some events. WB doesn't have to "stop" before the next scene is shot or the next contract is signed, either.
Fox obviously has a plan in mind. Not saying I necessarily like all of it. But they don't seem to be suffering from the clueless misdirection of the DC movies.
Maybe I'm just starting to show my age, but I want more substance than spectacle in stories. DC is all spectacle, no substance, and Marvel has been trending in that direction as well.
"Fox has a plan"? You're makin' me laugh at my desk. Their only "plan" was making the next X-Men movie with more mutants, every time, to try and make more money. Then they went backward to go in a slightly different direction, with a different director. Then youknowwho came back because he and Vaughn "traded" the movies they were working on (Singer was working on the first Kingsman).
It took three tries to finally give us a proper R-rated Wolverine movie that wasn't just violent, but had truly despicable antagonists who went about their ways with nary a trace of irony, and indulged subject matter that, honestly, was really dark. But it paid off. (WB went the opposite direction, and it's doing anything but pay off.)
(Btw, how did that "plan" work out for Fant4stic?)
And Sony's "plan"? Make a standalone Venom movie! (Without Spider-Man.) Filming soon: a team-up movie with Silver Sable and Black Cat, two Spider-Man rogues who have NEVER been on screen before. Why are they doing this? I surmise it's something to do with the words "wonder" and "woman."
As for Batman/Bruce being unlikeable, what was it he didn't do in BvS that turned you off? Buy a restaurant? Fall asleep in the conference room? Land in a chopper with a bevy of babes? Slap palms with Lucius? You mean it only actually showed him working out with weights and that bugged you? He only ran directly at his Wayne Enterprises building while a disaster scenario was unfolding? (Isn't that what a superhero does?) He came up short on the ol' arrogameter?
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