How will the smoking ban affect the "bar scene?" (apartment complexes, insurance)

[QuadEagle]

Hoosier guy… if you were an educated and critical thinker, instead of taunting and ridiculing people with your remarks about the Big Bad Government you would make the effort to engage in intellectual debate and perhaps realize that the issue with the smoking ban isn’t just that smoking is being banned…the issue is that the government is banning legal activity ON PRIVATE PROPERTY. Private property rights and the protections from government abuse is one of this country’s most precious constitutional tenets. Regardless of what you and I think about smoking and about smokers, the facts are, that smoking and being a smoker is legal. Banning smoking, a legal activity, is an invasion by the government plain and simple. It would be wise for all of us to not lockstep with the government on this one lest we find ourselves beholden.

[Auntie Bob]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_guy

Sorry that some feel the big bad government is coming in to try and help everyone co-exist in a more healthy environment.

I guess you'd have to define co-exist before I knew if I could agree with you. That seems to imply that smokers still have a choice of going out somewhere and being able to smoke.
To me, it kind of looks like co-existing means that smokers can be right there along with non-smokers, so long as they don't smoke.

[hi ppl]

In AZ they began a smoking ban this past summer. I don't think it slowed the places down to much being the weather allows for open decks. Many of the places have decks with misters, tables, even a shot bar on the deck. Then again it's AZ, nothin compared to the freezing nights/days in the north. Bad move for those areas, I say if they nonsmokers (like myself) don't like it then stay the F@#* home and be bored. Not like you need to live in the bar anyways. The bars/clubs here have the option to allow it in the facility if they really want to, I believe. The other places I think are more strict and need to follow like restaurants of which I agree.

[MidniteBreeze]

Ok, I was trying to avoid a philisophical debate and stick to talking about the "consequences" (both good and bad) of the smoking ban. It's probably pretty obvious what my feelings are (not that they really matter since it is as they say, "a done deal"), but since this is STILL America, I'd like to throw my .02 out there for the record anyway:

As far as "rights" go, I would agree that, in MOST cases, a non-smoker's right to breathe clean air supercedes that of a smoker's to engage in an activity that, albiet legal, could potentially harm a non-smoker. As such, I believe that's why there wasn't much resistance when they banned smoking in places like airports, shopping malls, schools, office buildings, etc. years ago.

Restaurants were a little touchier because, as opposed to the above examples, they tend to cater to more specific "markets" and as a consumer, you have more choices as to whether or not you will patronize a smoking vs. non-smoking establishment. Most restaurant owners--recognizing that most of their customers were non-smokers--went smoke-free voluntarlily anyway (at least that's what I saw)...so I think that's why some people took issue with the notion of the "big bad government" coming in to dictate what would have most likely gone along with "free market" trends anyway, especially given some time.

A big argument in FAVOR of restuarant smoking bans (at least in my opinion) is the fact that children (who have no say as to where their parents drag them) are allowed in most restaurants. I always hated when parents brought their kids into the smoking section. Adults, both customers and employees, can CHOOSE where they want to eat or work. But if for no other reason than to protect the kids, I can go along with the idea of smoking bans in restaurants.

Bars though...these are places that cater to ADULTS. Isn't there a point at which we can allow ADULTS to make informed decisions as to where they choose to spend their money? We can't leave ONE small segment of the business world open for business owners to run their businesses (LEGALLY) as they wish?

I hear the non-smokers saying how great it is to go out where there's no smoking and that it hasn't hurt the places they patronize. That's great, really. It makes me wonder why the bars you go to didn't choose to ban smoking on their own anyway...but if that works for everyone involved, great! More power to you.

But for those places that you never HAVE and never WILL patronize...the little guy with the working class bar on the corner who's going to have to shut down becaue 75% of his former customers are staying home (or going to the casinos) because they can no longer engage in a LEGAL activity there...why can't we let HIM run his bar the way that's profitable for him? Why not let HIS customers have a place where they can go out and relax the way THEY want to? Is that hurting anyone who doesn't want to be hurt? Do we really need the government involved to this extent??

Well, again, it's a moot point...but I do feel better for having the chance to rant a little! For me, personally, I don't go out to bars that much anymore anyway. But it makes me angry (and a little bit scared) to think of how involved the government is in our personal lives. I don't mean to get all "slippery slope" here, but seriously, where does it end?

[TravisW]

I'm happy to say that I no longer smoke. I still enjoy grabbing a couple of beers, though. I now understand why non-smokers hate being in really smokey bars. It really is rough on the breathing. Regular smokers don't notice it as much, because their lungs are coated with a protective tar layer.

That being said, I really think that in the case of bars it definitely should be up to the business owner. I think the State is overstepping its mandate on this one. If the excuse of the safety of employees is the one being used, then I think we should all just stop working. I work in an office, typing all day. I risk Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and God only knows how many electromagnetic fields I'm sitting in. Now, think about welders--they are in noxious fumes all day. A person can choose not to sit by a welder all day by not standing in a welding booth, and they can also choose not to sit by a smoker in a bar by not going to the bar. If you don't like loud music, don't buy tickets to the Iron Maiden show. It's very simple.

"I don't drink in "no-smoking" bars. The atmosphere is always too stuffy"--Ian Gillan

[srands]

I thinK its fantastic! Now maybe the rest of the world can go to a bar and enjoy a smoke free day! Not come home and smell like a cigarette butt and your eyes wont be as red as an apple. The hang over from cigarette smoke is worse than the my drinks. So many innocent people get lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke! Aw the smokers will be back into the bar scene they are just in the whining stage!

[Kiru]

Originally Posted by Isaysos

I LOVE the smoking ban, and I hope that one day all states pass it!

I would only love the ban if they made all smoking illegal. To allow smoking to be legal but restrict where a person can smoke is infringement on your personal civil rights and freedom of movement. It's especially bad since the only reason the government keeps smoking legal is so they can benefit monetarily. It's pathetic.

Also, I'd bet that if I tried to open a smoker's only bar or restaurant I'd be shut down. Wonder if I could argue equal rights and win? I bet I'd make good money with such a bar/restaurant.

[Castaway]

Originally Posted by Kiru

I would only love the ban if they made all smoking illegal. To allow smoking to be legal but restrict where a person can smoke is infringement on your personal civil rights and freedom of movement. It's especially bad since the only reason the government keeps smoking legal is so they can benefit monetarily. It's pathetic.

Also, I'd bet that if I tried to open a smoker's only bar or restaurant I'd be shut down. Wonder if I could argue equal rights and win? I bet I'd make good money with such a bar/restaurant.

Good points. Are non-smokers afraid that all bars would become smoking again if private owners made the house policy on smoking? I think not. Some bars would stay as they are, non-smoking. Others would opt to be smoking. In my little town we had the best of both worlds. 2 smoking establishments and 1 non-smoking establishment. All bars did well. Now that the smoking ban is in effect, we all lose. The non-smoking bar down sized because they are no longer unique. The smoking bars lost a good percentage of their business(smokers). Some smokers have returned and smoke outside. Many have just opted to stay at home where they are comfortable or go to bars at private clubs (V.F.W.'s, Elks, etc.) or the Indian casinos. The non-smoking population has to be shared 3 ways. We all are hurting. Funny, huh?

[kallista]

Originally Posted by Auntie Bob

*Laffin* Well something tells me that stepping outside for a smoke in phx az isn't quite the same as doing it in MN....in Jan.
Here we have a 25ft rule too though. You can't smoke within 25 feet of a doorway. Given the buildings are mostly all attached downtown, it's pretty hard to get 25ft from a doorway without stepping out into the middle of the street.

I live in Ely ,mn... cant get much colder or northern then that in mn...
Talk about small towns? Been to Ely?

[Auntie Bob]

Originally Posted by kallista

I live in Ely ,mn... cant get much colder or northern then that in mn...
Talk about small towns? Been to Ely?

I have but, not in the winter.
I was totally impressed with Ely. What a charming little town. I was there for a little while a few years back working for the Census. The people were so helpful and friendly, it made me wanna stay around a while.
I did get a kick out of the Pamida store there too. That had to be the oldest and smallest Pamida I'd ever seen.
All in all I left with a very favorable impression of the town and I'd love to visit again some time. Not in the winter though.