How will the smoking ban affect the "bar scene?" (Duluth: casino, closing)

[moving123456]

The most popular sports bars where I currently live outside of Minnesota are non-smoking bars. I love going to them because they are non-smoking.

[kuan]

Originally Posted by Castaway

I've read there has been a lot of revenue lost in CA due to the smoking ban. Many people have lost their livelihoods and their investments. I'm sure many businesses have seen an increase but other businesses have closed their doors.

A business that all of a sudden sees an increase in prospective clientele and can't capitalize on it deserves to go down the tubes.

Laws change all the time. Interstate commerce, tariffs, minimum wage, dram laws. Everyone adapts. In this case, the smoking ban has just levelled the playing field. Places which used to be exclusively non-smoking don't have the corner on the non-smokers anymore.

[MidniteBreeze]

Castaway: no, I didn't know about the proposed law in KY. I wonder what kind of precedents there are for such a law? I know you can be fined for brining things like fireworks across state lines if those fireworks are illegal in the state you're taking them to...but for something like cigarettes which can be bought legally in all 50 states? Interesting to see how that will go down.

Kaun: I think I understand what you're saying (meaning that since the majority of the population is non-smoking it would follow that non-smoking bars would be more popular and thus profitable for business owners.) But there's the whole idea of a "niche" market that while not necessarily "mainstream", can still be profitable.

For exmaple, a lot of people bring up the small "mom and pop" bars that have a loyal clientele who happen to be made up of mostly smokers (and perhaps some non-smokers who, for their own reasons, tolerate the smoke). Change the law and the smokers go away (along with many of the non-smokers because the place just isn't the "same" anymore). The business looses money and perhaps has to close down. Would you say that this is the business owner's fault and he/she "deserves to go down the tubes?" I'm no economist, but that seems a little harsh to me.

On my other thread I did bring up the question of bars having to "reinvent" themselves in order to stay afloat. (Say a former "biker" bar that now caters to businesspeople, or something like that.) I wonder how often this has happened and what the success rate is? I'm sure it must cost quite a bit of money and effort for a bar to attract a whole new "crowd", especially when they're losing money in the meantime.

I also wonder what kind of statistics are available concerning the general bar/club going population. While the majority of the American public is non-smoking, I would guess the smoker to non-smoker ratio among drinkers/bar-goers is probably lower?

[Castaway]

Kuan:
Prospective clientele? I had clientele. I was fine with that! If smoking has been the only reason that non-smokers don't go out then where are they? Perhaps, non-smokers don't go out or go out less frequently. I've been at this job for 29 years, I've must have been doing something right. We have always changed with the times. I'm sorry you feel that a business should just cater to one type of person (non-smokers) and if they don't, they deserve to go under. Very insensitive!

MidniteBreeze:
Well said. The atmosphere changes when smoking bans for bars are enacted. The cost to change is quite exorbitent. In my bar I have paid,out of my own pocket, for the patio & heaters because we had no business. I had to do something to get some business back. We are thinking that we will close the bar down, sad. As I have said, we are a conversation bar, a place where people get together to discuss current events and the hap around town. We socialized with our friends and they (non-smokers) never minded the smoke. I guess they are doing it somewhere else (Indian Casino bars & private clubs.

[MidniteBreeze]

Castaway, I am very sorry to hear that you may have to close your bar...that is sad.

I don't know, this whole thing kind of reminds me of when the Wal-Marts started coming to town and pushing the small "five and dime" type places out of business. Yes, it was inevitable and we have, as a society, adapted; but it's just sad to see a whole era of "Americana" go by the wayside (in this case, the small, neighborhood tavern.)

Maybe I'm wrong and the corner bar will find a way to hang on...but from what I've gathered it sounds as though the odds are very much against them. Big dance clubs and the like will probably be OK, but I don't know...sometimes I just don't feel like shopping at Wal-Mart.

[golfgal]

We will probably go out a lot more with the smoking ban. The smoking in bars/restaurants kept us away from those places. We were just at O'Gara's yesterday with a bunch of friends and we all were commenting about how NICE it was to go out and eat and not have to inhale smoke through the meal!

[Auntie Bob]

Our city enacted the smoking ban earlier than the State laws and what it's looking like here, the "working man's" bars are going to have a hard way to go and probably end up closing.
Most are operating on a shoestring to begin with and putting the needed 'patios' etc in place is cost prohibitive.
Most of these aren't the kind of bars that are going to see an increase in 'new' clientele, just because there won't be smokers there now.
Remodeling to make them into something other than a basic drinking man's bar I'm sure is cost prohibitive also.

My guess is, in the areas that have casinos, their business will skyrocket.
Rumor has it that Black Bear Casino already had their plans drawn up for their new buildings when the state wide smoking ban was announced. They redrew the plans to make the bar areas 3 times bigger.

[kallista]

In phx az the smoking ban has been working for almost a year now i think.. It works great, you just go outside to smoke, and come back in.. its really nice to be able to breathe when you get home from a bar lol... I used to smoke but i don't anymore.. so i know it can be a pain, but if you smoke you find ways to smoke, and going outside and have one isn't all that bad, better then on a plane for 8 hours..
I ma glad Ely will finally pass it, it wont hurt business at all.. people will still go out and just step outside, hey look at it this way maybe they will slow down while drinking cause its so cold outside lol..

[kallista]

Originally Posted by Castaway

Kuan:
Prospective clientele? I had clientele. I was fine with that! If smoking has been the only reason that non-smokers don't go out then where are they? Perhaps, non-smokers don't go out or go out less frequently. I've been at this job for 29 years, I've must have been doing something right. We have always changed with the times. I'm sorry you feel that a business should just cater to one type of person (non-smokers) and if they don't, they deserve to go under. Very insensitive!

MidniteBreeze:
Well said. The atmosphere changes when smoking bans for bars are enacted. The cost to change is quite exorbitent. In my bar I have paid,out of my own pocket, for the patio & heaters because we had no business. I had to do something to get some business back. We are thinking that we will close the bar down, sad. As I have said, we are a conversation bar, a place where people get together to discuss current events and the hap around town. We socialized with our friends and they (non-smokers) never minded the smoke. I guess they are doing it somewhere else (Indian Casino bars & private clubs.

This is your doing... cause i know of over 50 people who own bars and they don't have to close.. drinking people will still go out and drink..
your very negative on this matter, hire bands... i am glad they are banning smoking in bars.. now i can go out and come home not smelling lke smoke and can breathe the next day.. yay

[Auntie Bob]

Originally Posted by kallista

It works great, you just go outside to smoke, and come back in.. ..

*Laffin* Well something tells me that stepping outside for a smoke in phx az isn't quite the same as doing it in MN....in Jan.
Here we have a 25ft rule too though. You can't smoke within 25 feet of a doorway. Given the buildings are mostly all attached downtown, it's pretty hard to get 25ft from a doorway without stepping out into the middle of the street.