Same-Sex Marriage (living in, wealthy, deal)

[Green Onions]

Originally Posted by Toronto416

So I live in Fort Frances, Ontario; right across the toll bridge from International Falls, MN. I'm one of maybe three gay people here, and I feel that things have gotten a little better over the last few years. I want to offer my support in legalizing GLBT marriage in Minnesota or the whole US, but the larger problem I am seeing with our gay communities in general is the lack of access to finding each other these days...before, it meant travelling to a new, larger city and actually getting out there and becoming comfortable with interacting with GLBT folks. Today it's become very easy to hide in online chat rooms and never even speak to another gay person in real life. It's really hard to think about marriage when so many people are struggling to find a date or a second date - in absence of developing these social skills, there is an awkward discomfort that gay people have with each other - we don't know what to do or how to act...finally we are all together but it seems like the feeling is that of disappointment, as the gays they expected to meet (or more than likely what they fantasized based on the straight college athlete models in gay magazines) look nothing like the gays that are real-life, everyday people of all ages and walk of life. Just meeting someone takes an awfully long time, and legal or not, marriage is something that only a very privileged few will ever experience first hand. Unless the quality or ability to find relationships is made easier, or even encouraged more, being able to get married will be nice, but if we can't find anyone to date, it won't mean much.

As to your point about meeting people, being 40-something and straight and married for 17 years, I haven't a shred of useful advice, to be honest. But I do sympathize.

As to Minnesota and it's chances, I stumbled across this article, which includes a list of recent polls in the four states which will be holding referenda on same-sex marriage this November: Minnesota, Maine, Maryland and Washington. In Minnesota, opposition to the amendment has a +6 lead in the polls. In the other states (where the questions do not address constitutional bans but address legalization of same-sex marriage), support for legalization ranges between 19% and 21%. So Minnesota lags far behind, even though the vote in Minnesota is not to legalize same-sex marriage but whether or not to simply codify the current ban in the state constitution. I found that interesting.

It is worth noting that studies have shown that in these referenda, support for same-sex marriage (or, opposition to prohibiting it) at the ballot box tends to lag about 7% behind support in pre-election polls. So while in the other three states, the movements towards legalization appear to be doing very well (comfortably ahead of the 7% threshold), in Minnnesota it looks like a toss-up.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...ts+Movement%29

[tijlover]

I'm Gay, and don't give one hoot whether it's made legal or not, as I wouldn't make use of it anyway, just like the roughly 50% of straight people who don't make use of marriage either.

I've been in 4 Gay relationships and I've never understood that desire to make it official! If voted in, I fear that there'll be gold diggers out there to take advantage of it!

My first partner in Minnesota was extremely wealthy, and if we had married, divorced, I would have been sitting on top of the world today! And then some gold digger (perhaps not even Gay) might smell the money, worm his way into my life with his charm and good looks, and I wouldn't be sitting on top of the world for long!

[emcee squared]

Marry whoever or whatever you want.

If you love your patio furniture, get married to all the chairs for all I care.

[pzrOrange]

Originally Posted by Minnesota Spring

What is the argument against same sex marriage again?

and what is an argument against marrying 3 or 4 people, if they chose to do so? where does one stop?
may be I want to have two wives! I demand justice!!!1111 and while I am there, I also demand to end discrimination and let me use women's bathrooms and showers.

now, if I can be serious for a minute.... I am a true libertarian and I happen to believe that government has no business in telling anyone who to marry and under what conditions, but given the current realities and tons of conservative folks in the country, I see that same sex marriage is going to be a very tough uphill battle.

that said, I never really understood why gay people need to fight for this cause, when they could fight for increasing the benefits of domestic partnership instead and just leave it at that. same thing, but under a different name, so whats the big deal?

[Ghengis]

Originally Posted by emcee squared

Marry whoever or whatever you want.

If you love your patio furniture, get married to all the chairs for all I care.

polyfurniturmey!?

[Hoosier]

There are people out canvassing neighborhoods seeking signatures and money for support. Once I understood what the guy was actually talking about, signatures in support of gay marriage, I turned him down. The conversation turned quite awkward when I shared I don't support gay marriage. I noticed he had a lot of signatures on his clipboard already so it shows that I am most likely in the minority in what I believe. It's tough going door to door on issues like this and not sure what you're going to meet on the other side of the door.

[dravogadro]

Originally Posted by pzrOrange

and what is an argument against marrying 3 or 4 people, if they chose to do so? where does one stop?
may be I want to have two wives! I demand justice!!!1111 and while I am there, I also demand to end discrimination and let me use women's bathrooms and showers.

now, if I can be serious for a minute.... I am a true libertarian and I happen to believe that government has no business in telling anyone who to marry and under what conditions, but given the current realities and tons of conservative folks in the country, I see that same sex marriage is going to be a very tough uphill battle.

that said, I never really understood why gay people need to fight for this cause, when they could fight for increasing the benefits of domestic partnership instead and just leave it at that. same thing, but under a different name, so whats the big deal?

Maybe you can offer some insight into why conservatives love deregulating everything except what happens in the privacy of one's bedroom?

This is about what happens between two consenting adults, Homo sapiens. This is not about marrying a dog, patio furniture, or a tree, all of which cannot give consent. I am quite unclear on how this derails into claims of polygamy or any other claim.

As I repeat, ad nauseum,

And FYI, domestic partnerships tried getting legal traction to have the state recognize them and treat them the same without using the 'm' word and it was vetoed by Governor Pawlenty. So it has been tried and has failed, despite not having 'much resistance' against the idea.

[pzrOrange]

Originally Posted by dravogadro

Maybe you can offer some insight into why conservatives love deregulating everything except what happens in the privacy of one's bedroom?

sure. their religious beliefs that they are cramming down our throats. I am partially atheist and partially drinking buddhist, so I understand where you are coming from.

US is the most traditionalist (and may be even religious) country I know outside of India, so you can't really pretent that the society and traditions aren't there. you just have to learn to howl like a wolf if you live among them. they truly belive in marriage between a man and a woman, the marriage is mostly a religious ceremony anyway, so they may have a point.

to them, you are a sodomite or their sympathiser, they absoluely disapprove of your views and they as a society do not want to support you by granting additional benefits that they do not think you deserve. is that clear enough?

This is about what happens between two consenting adults, Homo sapiens. This is not about marrying a dog, patio furniture, or a tree, all of which cannot give consent. I am quite unclear on how this derails into claims of polygamy or any other claim.

well, who is to say that it cannot happen between multiple consenting adults? whats your ultimate argument against polygamy in marriage, if everyone is OK with this arrangement? may be I want three wives -- one pretty one, one smart one and one young one and I would love them all equally. whats wrong with that view? too perverse?

As I repeat, ad nauseum,

really, do you REALLY use latin words in everyday conversation instead of using them for academic writing ? please stop.

and yes, its Tim Pawlenty's fault for not passing this otherwise great and intellectually honest idea. vote him out of the office! or wait...

[srsmn]

Originally Posted by BobMarley_1LOVE

Minnesota same-sex marriage fight re-energized -- on both sides - CNN.com

What do you think? doesnt it look like we will legalize same sex marriage?

I think this is interesting, and I think this makes me nervous because the wording of the marriage amendment is the *opposite* of your own, and I fear that that might confuse people....

The question put to folks at the ballot box will *not* be "Should we legalize same sex marriage?" What it will be, instead, is some variant of "Should we amend the state constitution to prohibit same sex marriage?"

And I-- personally-- feel that it is wrong for us to make a decision not only for ourselves, but for generations and generations to come. Who is to say what the mores and social norms of the state will be 50 years down the road? Codifying a prohibition of same sex marriage will be disastrous for our state. Imagine the obstacles we'll have down the road-- we'd need to amend the constitution-- if we decide we want to open the door for same sex couples to legally marry.

Whereas, if we strike down this silly amendment, it makes things a whole lot easier. Not necessarily right now, this instant (although I personally think it should be done sooner rather than later) if the people of Minnesota don't want it. But the door is open for our children to make a different decision from our own, if they so choose later on. Doesn't that seem so much more equitable for everybody???

[srsmn]

Originally Posted by tijlover

I'm Gay, and don't give one hoot whether it's made legal or not, as I wouldn't make use of it anyway, just like the roughly 50% of straight people who don't make use of marriage either.

While I appreciate your opinion, plenty of people would take advantage of it, so what is the sense in discriminating just because you personally-- and sure, many others-- would not? Isn't that paramount to me saying "hey, I don't care about this, because I'm straight, so I'm just going to vote 'yes' on the marriage amendment"? I mean, if you're of no opinion, shouldn't the default be to do something that could potentially extend other people's civil liberties, instead of limiting them?

Also, where does the 50% number come from?

I've been in 4 Gay relationships and I've never understood that desire to make it official! If voted in, I fear that there'll be gold diggers out there to take advantage of it!

Well, I think gold diggers are gonna dig, regardless of whether they have legal recourse to, or not....

My first partner in Minnesota was extremely wealthy, and if we had married, divorced, I would have been sitting on top of the world today! And then some gold digger (perhaps not even Gay) might smell the money, worm his way into my life with his charm and good looks, and I wouldn't be sitting on top of the world for long!

Not with a pre-nup!

Also, I know the last part is tongue-in-cheek, but you oughta be careful about that "perhaps not even Gay" talk. You think straight people can choose to be straight anymore than you can choose to be gay? And just chameleon their way into your life without you even noticing?