Minnesota to become a right to work state? (how much, salary) - (MN) - Page 4 - City-Data Forum

nick is rulz · 02-15-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfgal

I'm not a union member but if you ban unions give it 10 years and see if you still think this way.....

quoted for truth.

xandrex · 02-16-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinswinmh

We need to differentiate between private and public. Our private union needs to separate themselves from public unions, as they currently don't. RTW attacks private unions, which are not nearly as damaging as public unions. Those should be the first enemy of our Republican lawmakers. As for a person who needs the job, union jobs are much harder to get BECAUSE they are supported by unions. It will be much easier for someone to find work in a non-union shop...but what do you know, the pay is significantly worse. And don't sit here and say you aren't killing the unions by passing RTW, because it would mean the death of private unions, because overnight no one would elect to put money into the coffers. For better or for worse...

I agree that bridling in some of the public union's power likely wouldn't be a big deal, but I wouldn't want to completely dismantle them. Government employees get new "bosses" who hold the power of the purse every 2 years: politicians. Slashing a department because it's politically popular looks great for a politician, but can wreak havoc on real people. People complain that government workers get decent pay and have relatively safe jobs...ever wonder if that's because they have a union backing them up? And should we really be angry that the people who run our country aren't tossed out every few years (our bureaucrats are supposed to be experienced professionals...though yes, more than a few of them are not) because a politician feels like scoring quick points with a budget cut?

twinswinmh · 02-16-2012, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xandrex

Slashing a department because it's politically popular looks great for a politician, but can wreak havoc on real people. People complain that government workers get decent pay and have relatively safe jobs...ever wonder if that's because they have a union backing them up? And should we really be angry that the people who run our country aren't tossed out every few years (our bureaucrats are supposed to be experienced professionals...though yes, more than a few of them are not) because a politician feels like scoring quick points with a budget cut?

We're probably just going to fundamentally disagree, and that is okay with me, but I'll respond. As I said, government unions have the final say over their employers, whereas in a private union, the employer ultimately has the final say, though the union can still strike. That is a balance that I simply don't believe is sustainable. Maybe you're right, simply reducing the power of the government worker unions might be enough to put it into balance, you could definitely be right. I agree that completely slashing the unions out of the public sector is not the right answer, just as I believe RTW is not the answer for dealing with private unions, though I am a conservative.

You're right, anyone who has never considered that government workers have the plushest jobs in all the land, because of unions, is being a bit thick-headed. That is exactly why they have the HIGHER THAN MEDIAN pay and extreme job security. I take issue with that...if the government is going broke and people are hurting all over the country, those job situations should be as precarious as any. If the government is running out of money but there is a stopper (the union) in allowing them to reduce expenses, isn't that a problem? I agree that there are other areas that should be cut from first, but jobs, salaries, and benefits should be on the table.

To be honest I had trouble listening to the whining of public employees earlier this year when Minnesota was shutting down. They complained about not knowing if they would have a job and when their paychecks were coming next. Well, welcome to the real world in a capitalist country? That is what the rest of us have to deal with on a daily basis. For the most part, do your job, work hard, and you will be able to feed your family. If one company doesn't treat you right, another will. I don't believe that there needs to be protection beyond that provided by any union. As I said, the trade unions up here (and we belong to the "international" which is all over the country and in Canada too, all working the same way, offers no protection if you show up drunk or do something that would simply get a cop, teacher, or government official shuffled sideways.

I ramble

sholomar · 02-18-2012, 07:16 AM

I always thought the idea of an 'official' union was a pretty silly one.. where you pay union dues then that gives you rights but you can't strike on your own, etc.... I made peanuts at the grocery store I worked at as a teen... looking back I could have done a lot better.. minimum wage which at the time was $4.75 with little vacation, no benefits.... union didn't really help me much and still isn't giving the people who work at this grocery store that much in any real benefits... (I quit back in 2004 but 4-5 of my co-workers are still there and I visit them when I drive to WI and hear about how the pay has barely increased, they have 1 person doing things 2 used to do when I was there, etc... basically working conditions were based on who owned the stores, which back then the one I worked at was family owned, but corporate wanted them all under their ownership and when that happened things went downhill.. about a year before I quit)

honestly there's nothing to stop workers at any given place from striking. Unions of old were not 'organizations' that took in dues and had political agendas, they were just workers who were tired of working conditions that decided to group together.... I don't know how well that would work today as they could probably find replacements pretty quick in many areas....

As far as firing employees, you have to have a damn good reason too anyways or they'll get unemployment for 75-99 weeks or whatever, so it's no big loss, at least in my book, if I lose some retail job.

the new fad is to get people to quit so they can hire new ones and pay them less too...

the basic problem is the middle class is being squeezed out... pay is decreasing for blue collar work and the work there is still is being outsourced. I sometimes wonder how people make it in this country, where are they working? There are places in eastern WI that are paying $10-12 for jobs that they used to pay $18+ for years... paying peanuts for hard work... the place I work can afford to pay decent because they make medical products... if you aren't in the medical field, on the oil rigs, or some other high profit margin field....