Outstate? (Minneapolis, St. Paul, Rochester: living in, versus, suburbs)

[knke0204]

In California, if its not NorCal or SoCal , it's Central CA

[uptown_urbanist]

In Delaware it's "slower lower Delaware." Makes "Oustate" sound a bit better, doesn't it?

[knke0204]

I think Wisconsin uses 'Outstate' as well.

Michigan uses something too. I have family in Lansing and they have referred to Lansing as "Up North"

[DirtMagurt]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Yes! Totally agree with this one. I could understand "where in the Twin Cities do you live?" but it's never that -- just "what suburb?" (and there was one woman from Wisconsin who told me she didn't realize that there WAS an actual city of Minneapolis!) I know it's not intended to be annoying, but it's still very grating.

My impression is that people who are from Minneapolis, anyway, don't say that they're from "the Cities." I have always thought it was just a term primarily used by people who don't live in the Twin Cities. Or maybe people who come from "outstate" and then move to "the Cities" (and have therefore grown up with the term)? Just a theory.

I can understand people saying they're from "Minneapolis" (meaning somewhere in the general metro area), although also agree that it's mostly unnecessary within Minnesota. In other states, though, odds are slim that anyone will be familiar with any local suburb, so it's understandably easier to just say "Minneapolis." I don't think the people saying it are intending to be offensive, just assume that there's no reason to think that someone living outside of their immediate area would have any reason to know where the suburb was located (there are still suburbs that sometimes pop up on this forum that I've never heard of, and I am from the Twin Cities!). I think of neighborhoods in the city as the equivalent. I say I'm from Minneapolis, and then if they're interested, will mention neighborhood.

Every time I have this conversation it's with somebody from here, not from elsewhere. Weirdest thing. Was talking with someone on the plane a few weeks back returning from the left coast.

her: "where are you from?"
me: "Edina. you?"
her: "Minneapolis"
Me: "oh, what part of the city?"
her: "Maple Grove"


/facepalm

[dutchinnd]

Politicians tend to use the phrase "Greater Minnesota" rather than outstate--I think, in part, to bring home the part of proportion of the state's area that is outside of the Metro area. When the legislative representation, being base understandably on population, is fairly heavily weighted to the Metro, then those government officials who have to deal w/ roads, law enforcement, DNR issues, etc., etc., over large numbers of square miles want to make the point that they are indeed the "greater" part of Minnesota.
But not being from here--only MN, ND, & SD refer to it as "The Cities." For the rest of the country it is still the Twin Cities. When I moved to the upper midwest people looked at me strangely when I said Twin Cities; there could be only one group of cities that was worth talking about--so of course they are "The Cities."

[Radical_Car]

I don't see how the term is offensive, just using it to refer to anywhere in Minnesota thats not in the metro. If it's offensive then what do you suggest we refer to it as? Or are you going to be offended at every nick name someone coins for it? Saying rural Minnesota doesn't make much sense if you live in Duluth or Rochester.
When I went to the Chicago area and we stayed in Burr Ridge, IL, I always referred to as a Chicago suburb or a suburb of Chicago or the Chicago area, while my parents just said we went to Chicago.

There may also be suburbs that people who don't like in the twin cities in Minnesota aren't familiar with, St. Paul Park, Vadnais Heights, much smaller suburbs. Even uptownurbanist said he/she is still hearing suburbs he/she has never heard of before.

The most annoying thing is for me though is they say they live in Minneapolis when they live in a suburb. I've never heard someone who lives in a suburb say they're from St. Paul, I have heard people say they're from Minneapolis and St. Paul or the Minneapolis St Paul area, but never just St. Paul, but people say they're from Minneapolis all the time.
Though I'm like(or I feel like) i'm the only person who doesn't live in the twin cities who knows a ton of suburbs even the really small ones and actually knows the neighborhoods throughout Minneapolis and St. Paul and can distinguish between the good and bad parts of North Minneapolis instead of lumping all of North Minneapolis is bad.

I actually had a teacher(one who lives in Little Falls) ask us in school here, "Who wants to live in North Minneapolis?" Thats incredibly offensive, and I don't even live there. It's not one sided like the OP is making it seem. Theres many offensive names people refer to the cities as well. My teacher was also saying how much he hates traffic and why would anyone ever live in the cities, even though theres many valid reasons why people would rather live there instead of Little Falls. I can say the same thing, why would anyone want to live in Little Falls? and why live there when you work in St. Cloud?!? It's also not super hard to live where you work.

I think a better question to ask would be why live in Maple Grove when you work in Burnsville(if my teacher could distinguish between Minneapolis,St. Paul and the suburbs.) When my cousin lived in Minneapolis and I stayed with him for a week he was a simple 10 minute drive through work, mainly only driving through residential streets. And I lived in Annandale for 16 years, the people who hate the cities and hate traffic but yet they commute to downtown Minneapolis for work and they always complain about their commute and talk about how people are stupid for living there. How is living in a place like Annandale and commuting to downtown Minneapolis any different then living in the cities. You're down there 5 days a week, and whatever you save on housing by not living in the cities is just going to be put in the gas tank, especially now with gas at $3.59(just put gas in about an hour ago)

Isn't one of the advantages of living in a small town not having to deal with rush hour traffic?

Also, isn't referring to the entire state outside of the Twin Cities as The Real Minnesota offensive? Thats a lot more offensive then Outstate Minnesota. It's not one sided like the op is making it seem.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by DirtMagurt

Every time I have this conversation it's with somebody from here, not from elsewhere. Weirdest thing. Was talking with someone on the plane a few weeks back returning from the left coast.

her: "where are you from?"
me: "Edina. you?"
her: "Minneapolis"
Me: "oh, what part of the city?"
her: "Maple Grove"


/facepalm

Yes, that about sums up my experience. It's especially annoying since we've already established that we're both familiar with the area; if we're both from the same place (or have lived there at one point or the other) I think it's safe to assume that I know, and you know, that Maple Grove is not Minneapolis! (or, if I don't know where you live, or you don't know where I live, that would make a good follow-up question.

On the other hand, I've also been pleasantly surprised when asking people in other states (who are also from the area) where in Minneapolis they were from, and they answered with an exact intersection -- in multiple cases the location has been within a short distance from where I, too, grew up. I always enjoy those "it's a small world" moments.

Radical_Car, I agree about the "real" Minnesota thing -- my neighborhood is just as "real" as anywhere else. Sometimes it bugs me, sometimes it doesn't. I think it's nice that Minnesota has a range of living options.

[northstar22]

Living in Annandale and commuting is better than living in the Cities because you still get to come home and enjoy small-town peace, rather than live the hectic urban lifestyle 24/7/365. Also, if you live in Annandale, it's better to commute to Minneapolis than be unemployed.

As for why people say they're from "Minneapolis," it's because most people outside The Cities don't know the suburbs that well, and most individuals from out of town say "Minneapolis" when they mean the Twin Cities area (just look at the General U.S. forum). They may name their suburb while they're in St. Cloud, because St. Cloud is only 70 miles from Mpls and it's practically a Cities suburb in its own right. Out here, The Cities isn't even on the radar. It's all about Sioux Falls, then Watertown, Brookings and Mitchell, South Dakota. Most people around here wouldn't know the difference between Shakopee and North Oaks, or Vadnais Heights and Maple Grove.

I don't think calling Greater MN "The Real Minnesota" is offensive. MSP is a major metro area, and major metros are all very similar to each other. It would fit just as well into any other state/province in North America. When I'm in Plymouth, I don't feel like I'm in Minnesota, I just feel like I'm in generic suburban USA. Same thing with Minneapolis - I could be in any city in North America. If you've seen one large city, you've seen them all. The outstate, not The Cities, is what makes Minnesota "Minnesota."

[Radical_Car]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I think it's nice that Minnesota has a range of living options.

I really like that too, there are plenty of options, and also plenty of rural options as well. Southwest Minnesota is a lot different then Northeastern Minnesota. California(yes, I said California) is another I think has tons of options. People don't usually realize how far north and south it goes. It stretches from Texas all the way up to Iowa, and theres also many beautiful(though incredibly expensive) small rural towns there as well, just overshadowed like in Minnesota and Illinois.

[Lily0fthevalley]

I've been thinking about Minnesota's term "outstate" in relation to other terms that I've heard used in other states where I've lived. Everywhere else the regional terms have some meaning in regard to geography, topography, weather, or culture.

Indiana: "Northern Indiana", "Indy" (also known as "The City" and which refers to a greater metropolitan area), and "Southern Indiana". No "ins" or "outs" there.

New York: "Upstate" and "The City" (which refers to the greater NYC metropolitan area). There are sub areas, too, such as "The Fingerlakes". No "ins" or "outs" there. "Up" makes sense because NYC is on the southern edge of the state.

Texas: "East Texas" and "West Texas". Subsets like "The Hill Country". "DallasFortWorth" is one word which refers to a greater metropolitan area. No "ins" or "outs" there.

California: "Northern California" and "Southern California". "LA" refers to a greater metropolitan area, although there are subset terms like "The Valley". Central California might also be a term which I've never heard used. Who talks about Bakerfield? No "ins" or "outs" there.

Utah: "Salt Lake" and . . . I don't remember other areas referred to by anything other than the name of the town. And "Salt Lake" refers to a greater metropolitan area. No "ins" or "outs" there.

Oklahoma: "Eastern" "Western" and "Southern" Oklahoma. "Tulsa" and "OKC" refer to greater metropolitan areas. No "ins" or "outs" there.

Arkansas: is very region specific. "Northwest Arkansas" "The Delta" and etc. Cities are referred to by their names, which mean their greater metropolitan areas. No "ins" or "outs" there.

Iowa: Des Moines is either called by it's name or is referred to as "The City", which refers to a greater metropolitan area. I don't remember other parts of the state being called by anything other than the name of the town. However, earlier today I was on the phone with a man who said "You know this is Southern Iowa, don't you?" which obviously has meaning to him. But no "ins" or "outs" there.

Miinnesota - The idea that anyone would lump International Falls and Lanesboro and Pipestone into the same identifier term - "Outstate" - has no meaning. It is just not logical or useful geographically, topographically, meteorologically, culturally, or politically .

And not to get all historical on you "Greater metropolitan Minneapolis and St. Paulian and associated suburban humans" but there would BE no Minneapolis (yes, the city itself) as we know it without the wheat fields of North Dakota and iron mines of Northeast Minnesota.