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I lived in the City Heights neighborhood of San Diego, CA where there was small Somalian enclave.
Well its more of an Somalian/Ethiopian/Vietnamese/Laotian/Central American/Mexican/Black enclave.
In my apartment building there was was a little of everything but mostly Somalians. The building had a community feeling, and although in a supposedly rough part of town, I always felt safe in the complex. They were very friendly people who seemed very family oriented.
They seemed to have a sense of community amongst themselves. The older men would always hang out at the starbucks across the street drinking coffee and socializing.
Yeah there were some kids who took on the urban fashion and mimicked the gangsters but most of them were harmless.
I actually heard of the somalian community in mineapolis from a somalian classmate.
All in all, I think they are great people generally.
I've read this entire thread about why and how the Somalis were resettled in Minnesota and some in Rhode Island. But it strikes me as somewhat misguided to bring a group of immigrants to areas of this country where the climate and culture is radically different from their country of origin in Africa. Would it not make more sense to relocate them to places with a culture and geography closer to where they came from? How successful can anyone expect them to be, having been uprooted and moved around the world to a foreign place, far colder with a totally different culture? There have to be other countries with some resources and perhaps a more tropical climate and more similar culture/lifestyle. I've also read that some Somalis were settled in Atlanta Georgia, but on their own went to Lewiston Maine, of all places, because of the high cost of living and lack of jobs in Atlanta. That doesn't make too much sense to me, as Atlanta has had tremendous growth in jobs over the last 15 years and the cost of living is lower than the northeast. In Maine, there was considerable backlash when they continued to arrive in big numbers. I can't think of a place more foreign to a native Somali than small town Maine, IMO. I don't really understand this.
There is nowhere in America where the culture is similar to what it was in Somalia, but actually many lived a very rural agrarian existence so the small town might actually more similar than the city for a lot. Also, where better than America, one of the largest, richest countries in the world that is at its core, a "nation of immigrants"? Many refugees do spend a lot of time in other countries - for somalians this includes Kenya, Ethiopia, Eritrea, among others - in refugee camps before being granted asylum to come to America, various countries in Europe, or other parts of the world - of the Somalians I know, many have family and friends that have sought refuge and are living in Europe. And really ANYWHERE, despite the culture/ average temperature, is better than the situation that took place in their country before living in refugee camps for years where food, water, and fuel was often times scarce, and a lot of violence continued to take place. When you talk about job growth, you have to consider growth in the entry level sectors as if you are new to the country and speak limited English, no matter what you did in your home country (especially if that country was in Africa), you are limited to a very short list of entry-level positions which are not numerous anywhere in the country - in manufacturing we all know about the hundreds of thousands of jobs (if not millions) that have flown overseas or to Latin America.
I have had the pleasure of getting to work with a variety of new immigrants when they are new to the country and have been able to witness first-hand the progression that takes places with many persons after a few years - I am continually amazed when persons that I formerly worked with who formerly had little to no english or work experience, come back to my office speaking excellent English and tell me about the great job they recently got or that they are starting college-level coursework - my coworkers similarly have many stories like this.
And to the other poster on here crying about having Somali neighbors on welfare, how do you know they can't afford the home/ apartment they are living in without welfare? - many successful Somalis could purchase a home but choose not to as some have religious beliefs that dictate not paying interest. How do you know the mom isn't a stay-at-home mom while the father works and independently supports the family? Have you ever talked to your neighbors, gotten to know them? I have known many Somali families that have refused to take welfare despite being eligible to continue receiving it after they start working in a low-wage position - their reasoning was that they would much rather work for a living than take a handout, that other people needed it more than they, and that they (knowing first-hand that the world can be a very precarious place) want to ensure that if something bad happens and they get laid off from their job(s), they might still be eligible to receive a benefit (all benefits have time limits) until they can quickly find a new job.
Yes, the situation is dire. Somali gangs continue to encroach on the center of the city. Soon they will topple city hall and assume rule over the citizens of Minneapolis. Helicopters, tanks, and artillery fire are now daily sights and sounds in the streets here. The allied forces usually advance at night given their superior technology, but during the day they are no match for the urban warfare tactics of the Somali gangs. Innocent civilians are fleeing the city in droves and seeking shelter at the Mall of America, which has become one of the last strongholds of our defensive forces (although there have been several rocket attacks in recent months). Once Minneapolis falls the nuclear option will inevitably be on the table. God save us all.
As someone who works with a lot of welfare clients, I see a lot of other ethnicities "playing" the welfare system, not the least of them being white!
It sounds to me that you have passed judgment on all of the Somalis. Have you taken the time to meet any of them and shown them how to clean up their yards, etc.? I've found that by teaching immigrants about our culture and how we do things they benefit in assimilating better and we benefit by learning more about the world in general.
Yes, we have spoken with them, we have spoken to their landlords (also immigrants), our neighborhood association board members have written letters outlining association rules and regs and have also spoken to them in person, we have worked with a Somali interpreter provided by the city, city code enforcement officers have spoken with them... it makes no difference. They continue to drag the neighborhood down. I'm not passing judement on all Somalis, but show me a neighborhood that welfare recipients have improved. Why is it our job to help them assimilate? All they have to do is look around and see that their neighbors all mow their lawns, shovel their sidewalks, pick up their garbage, store their cars in their attached garages, don't store wet mattresses and couches in their backyards and don't have the police at their doors multiple times a year, etc. I was a renter at one point in my life and no one had to show me how to keep my rental proprty looking decent and how to be a decent neighbor. It's common sense.
Put yourself in the shoes of the hardworking homeowners on my block... you own a home and you spend a lot of money keeping it in good conditon... suddenly a mob of welfare recipients move in and are allowed to behave as they please... lawns never mowed... leaves never raked and removed... garbage cans left tipped over in the street... litter everywhere... junk cars parked everywhere... moldy couches and matresses in the backyard... children and toddlers running around unattended... rocks, sticks, bottles and cans that pass for toys left strewn in the street on a daily basis... adults loitering in the street 24/7... you can't possibly defend that sort of behavior.
I don't need or want to learn about their world. I've seen quite enough. And... it's not my job to educate them. Where is HUD? Where is the organization that supplies the housing vouchers? Where are the do-gooders who brought them over here? I'll tell you where they are... they're in denial and they refuse to help because we've tried that too!
That's a nice idealistic view you have of teaching immigrants about our culture. Keep it up and you'll have the same problem in your neighborhood. What happened to personal accountability?
Wait a minute, so you're blaming the fact that you can't sell your house on some kids playing in the street? I'm sorry but you lost me there. I'm not sure you're aware of this but we're in the middle of a housing crash, and as a result many people are having difficulty selling their home. I'm not going to go into your other statements, which are also pretty ridiculous by the way.
First of all, I'm not trying to sell my house. I wouldn't even attempt it at the moment - primarily because of the situation I described. Would you buy a home knowing there were three Section 8 rentals on the block?
Why do you consider my other statements ridiculous? The adult Somalis in the rental properties I refer to do not work. I seriously doubt they are self-employed or independently wealthy, so how do YOU explain the fact that they're here, wandering in the street, 24/7?
Our homes are fairly small (two and three bedrooms max), and no one with more than one child has ever lived on this block, so yes, 17 Somali kids jammed into three small houses, each with multiple adult residents, isn't a good thing. Teenage boys who loudly call each other the "N" word and mutha-f---er as they go to and from the school bus only adds to the charm. Two toddlers who don't wear pants OR diapers using the street as a potty in the summer is nice too.
Rain-soaked matresses, couches, broken chairs, an old sewing machine and old multiple rugs thrown over deck railings and in backyards is hardly ridiculous. Constant littering isn't ridiculous. Garbage cans left lying in the street isn't ridiculous. Bushes and trees used to dry laundry isn't ridiculous. Lawns that haven't been mowed for three years isn't ridiculous. People using mismatched sheets and blankets as window coverings is always a sign of a well-kept, upscale neighborhood, right? Window screens and screen doors ripped out of place and left lying on the roof and in the front yard of one home is also a good sign, right?
If you haven't seen it, you can't imagine it. It's documented. We have photographs, but we can't get any help, because God forbid, we be culturally insensitive. Fortunately, we've made some recent progress. Our city is now doing annual rental inspections and landlords must be licensed. They are also considering limiting the number of rentals on a given block, and now landlords are required to provide a working phone number to the city. In addition, this year, the city will levy fines for not mowing and other code violations.
I really don't care who lives in the nieghborhood as long as they treat it with respect and appreciate the opportunity they've been given. We're paying for them to live here with our tax dollars, and if the Section 8 program was working, we wouldn't be able to tell who's in the program and who isn't. When approached by the city about the lawn mowing issue, one resident said she couldn't afford the gas for the lawn mower. Now, if you can't afford the gas for the lawn mower, is it really a good idea to rent a house with a lawn? Again, common sense.
I really don't understand people on this thread who defend bad behavior. There is no defense for this. AND this isn't about race or immigrants - this is a suburb, so yes, it's predominently white, but there are two perfectly wonderful black couples, a woman who immigrated from Russia and a hispanic family (with one child) who have owned homes on our block for 10+ years and they've all joined in on helping to put the recent shenanigans to a end.
FYI - The landlords have not made a secret of the fact thet they're renting to Section 8 voucher holders. How do I know the Somali families are the only ones who live on welfare on this block? I don't, but if there are others, it is impossible to tell... and that's the way it should be!
"And to the other poster on here crying about having Somali neighbors on welfare, how do you know they can't afford the home/ apartment they are living in without welfare? - many successful Somalis could purchase a home but choose not to as some have religious beliefs that dictate not paying interest. How do you know the mom isn't a stay-at-home mom while the father works and independently supports the family? Have you ever talked to your neighbors, gotten to know them? I have known many Somali families that have refused to take welfare despite being eligible to continue receiving it after they start working in a low-wage position - their reasoning was that they would much rather work for a living than take a handout, that other people needed it more than they, and that they (knowing first-hand that the world can be a very precarious place) want to ensure that if something bad happens and they get laid off from their job(s), they might still be eligible to receive a benefit (all benefits have time limits) until they can quickly find a new job."
Section 8 has no time limits... but okay, for the sake of argument, let's say they're not living on welfare... does that make the situation any better? Then we're just talking about bad renters and bad landlords. Fine, I'll buy that, it happens, but these people ARE on welfare and they are receiving Section 8 - confirmed by their landlords. That's our issue - we are literally paying for them to ruin our neighborhood. Does that seem right? As I said, these homes rented for between $1400 and $1800 a month before new owners began accepting Section 8 vouchers, and still do for that matter. There's no way minimum wage would even begin to cover that. Trust me, we've met and have spoken with them, they don't work. The interpreter we worked with confirmed it. I asked how they manage all the expenses and she said, "Child support and extensions, they apply for extensions, for hardship. Language is a hardship. They study in place of work for now." Well fine, I'm all for assimilation and that's a step in the right direction, but it still doesn't address the problems in the neighborhood (see ablove).
It's interesting how you middle class values already make you assume that these are traditional families with a father and mother. Only one of the three families in question is a married couple. One is a single mom and one is a single dad - the other adults living in the homes are supposedly relatives.
All I'm saying is that hardworking homeowners should have a voice... a place to register complaints... and some form of mediation. There is no "support" for us - everything protects the people who are dragging the neighborhood down. They're not held accountable because they don't speak English?! They litter because they can't speak English? They don't mow their lawns because they don't speak English? Give me a break.
First of all, I'm not trying to sell my house. I wouldn't even attempt it at the moment - primarily because of the situation I described. Would you buy a home knowing there were three Section 8 rentals on the block?
Why do you consider my other statements ridiculous? The adult Somalis in the rental properties I refer to do not work. I seriously doubt they are self-employed or independently wealthy, so how do YOU explain the fact that they're here, wandering in the street, 24/7?
Our homes are fairly small (two and three bedrooms max), and no one with more than one child has ever lived on this block, so yes, 17 Somali kids jammed into three small houses, each with multiple adult residents, isn't a good thing. Teenage boys who loudly call each other the "N" word and mutha-f---er as they go to and from the school bus only adds to the charm. Two toddlers who don't wear pants OR diapers using the street as a potty in the summer is nice too.
Rain-soaked matresses, couches, broken chairs, an old sewing machine and old multiple rugs thrown over deck railings and in backyards is hardly ridiculous. Constant littering isn't ridiculous. Garbage cans left lying in the street isn't ridiculous. Bushes and trees used to dry laundry isn't ridiculous. Lawns that haven't been mowed for three years isn't ridiculous. People using mismatched sheets and blankets as window coverings is always a sign of a well-kept, upscale neighborhood, right? Window screens and screen doors ripped out of place and left lying on the roof and in the front yard of one home is also a good sign, right?
If you haven't seen it, you can't imagine it. It's documented. We have photographs, but we can't get any help, because God forbid, we be culturally insensitive. Fortunately, we've made some recent progress. Our city is now doing annual rental inspections and landlords must be licensed. They are also considering limiting the number of rentals on a given block, and now landlords are required to provide a working phone number to the city. In addition, this year, the city will levy fines for not mowing and other code violations.
I really don't care who lives in the nieghborhood as long as they treat it with respect and appreciate the opportunity they've been given. We're paying for them to live here with our tax dollars, and if the Section 8 program was working, we wouldn't be able to tell who's in the program and who isn't. When approached by the city about the lawn mowing issue, one resident said she couldn't afford the gas for the lawn mower. Now, if you can't afford the gas for the lawn mower, is it really a good idea to rent a house with a lawn? Again, common sense.
I really don't understand people on this thread who defend bad behavior. There is no defense for this. AND this isn't about race or immigrants - this is a suburb, so yes, it's predominently white, but there are two perfectly wonderful black couples, a woman who immigrated from Russia and a hispanic family (with one child) who have owned homes on our block for 10+ years and they've all joined in on helping to put the recent shenanigans to a end.
FYI - The landlords have not made a secret of the fact thet they're renting to Section 8 voucher holders.
Quote:
How do I know the Somali families are the only ones who live on welfare on this block? I don't, but if there are others, it is impossible to tell... and that's the way it should be!
The key word here is that you can't tell. From what I observe, most of the Somali's don't keep it a secret about being on welfare. Other people will keep it a secret because there is a certain shame about it. I sure wouldn't go on welfare because I find it embarrassing just to be at the welfare office.
Section 8 has no time limits... but okay, for the sake of argument, let's say they're not living on welfare... does that make the situation any better? Then we're just talking about bad renters and bad landlords. Fine, I'll buy that, it happens, but these people ARE on welfare and they are receiving Section 8 - confirmed by their landlords. That's our issue - we are literally paying for them to ruin our neighborhood. Does that seem right? As I said, these homes rented for between $1400 and $1800 a month before new owners began accepting Section 8 vouchers, and still do for that matter. There's no way minimum wage would even begin to cover that. Trust me, we've met and have spoken with them, they don't work. The interpreter we worked with confirmed it. I asked how they manage all the expenses and she said, "Child support and extensions, they apply for extensions, for hardship. Language is a hardship. They study in place of work for now." Well fine, I'm all for assimilation and that's a step in the right direction, but it still doesn't address the problems in the neighborhood (see ablove).
It's interesting how you middle class values already make you assume that these are traditional families with a father and mother. Only one of the three families in question is a married couple. One is a single mom and one is a single dad - the other adults living in the homes are supposedly relatives.
All I'm saying is that hardworking homeowners should have a voice... a place to register complaints... and some form of mediation. There is no "support" for us - everything protects the people who are dragging the neighborhood down. They're not held accountable because they don't speak English?! They litter because they can't speak English? They don't mow their lawns because they don't speak English? Give me a break.
What you refer to as my "middle class values" didn't assume anything, I guess I didn't assume that you would know so much about people who you can't actually communicate with's business.
I really do not understand who your gripe is with. From your other posts, it seems that one of your primary concerns is with the lawn not being mowed (you've went on at length about this numerous times), the exterior of the homes (screens in yard/ roof), and litter in the yard, and you have asserted that the persons in question are undoubtedly Section 8 renters. It is most generally always the case that it is the landlord's responsibility to be performing the exterior/ yard maintenance and upkeep of rental properties. Why are you not focusing your attention/criticism on the landlord/ property management company? (it's easy to find out who owns a property). 9.9 times out of 10, they are the ones who are responsible for mowing the lawn and exterior maintenance, unless negotiated as part of the lease. And if litter is a concern, it is the landlord's job to enforce terms of lease and/or charge their tenants a fee if they are having to devote extra time/ money in removing waste or bulk items. You say that you've called everywhere under the sun to complain and/or try and work to teach your neighbors property upkeep; and although it sounds like you're on a friendly enough basis with the property owner(s) that they feel comfortable communicating their tenants' personal/ confidential information with you, didn't it occur to you to be calling the property manager/ landlord's violations in to the city as it is ultimately their property and responsibility, or calling them directly to complain about the situation and/or try to come to terms with their lack of proper management???
What you refer to as my "middle class values" didn't assume anything, I guess I didn't assume that you would know so much about people who you can't actually communicate with's business.
I really do not understand who your gripe is with. From your other posts, it seems that one of your primary concerns is with the lawn not being mowed (you've went on at length about this numerous times), the exterior of the homes (screens in yard/ roof), and litter in the yard, and you have asserted that the persons in question are undoubtedly Section 8 renters. It is most generally always the case that it is the landlord's responsibility to be performing the exterior/ yard maintenance and upkeep of rental properties. Why are you not focusing your attention/criticism on the landlord/ property management company? (it's easy to find out who owns a property). 9.9 times out of 10, they are the ones who are responsible for mowing the lawn and exterior maintenance, unless negotiated as part of the lease. And if litter is a concern, it is the landlord's job to enforce terms of lease and/or charge their tenants a fee if they are having to devote extra time/ money in removing waste or bulk items. You say that you've called everywhere under the sun to complain and/or try and work to teach your neighbors property upkeep; and although it sounds like you're on a friendly enough basis with the property owner(s) that they feel comfortable communicating their tenants' personal/ confidential information with you, didn't it occur to you to be calling the property manager/ landlord's violations in to the city as it is ultimately their property and responsibility, or calling them directly to complain about the situation and/or try to come to terms with their lack of proper management???
Or would that be the harder route?
These are single family homes, not apartmenets. There is no property management group. We have a neighborhood association, but it maintains (lawn mowing) common areas (walking paths) in the neighborhood - period. Again, these are not townhouses, condo or apartments - they are single family homes. The individuals who own these properties are essentially slumlords. One own two of the houses. One owns another. They have unlisted numbers and no permanent addresses, and that's not a coincidence. The city will take measures to find them in the near future because the properties are not properly licensed. Yes, I agree, the problems are the responsibility of the property owners, but they keep themselve well-hidden and NEVER visit the properties. We have addressed letters to them at their rental properties in hopes that they might receive them and reply - they haven't. We have also sent letters and called the addresses we do have for them. According to the interpeter, rent checks and renter complaints are sent to post office boxes and the renters are unwilling to share those with us - not that it would help much.
Still, the families have been spoken to about all the problems listed above, and lawn mowing is part of theie lease agreements. That's why I blame them. They know what's expected of them, but they won't step up. I rented a house when I was in my 20s, but that didn't mean I could tear the screens off it, hang laudry in the trees and throw litter in the street. Again, there is no defense for this kind of behavior. It's laziness and entitlement. Period. When we met with them, one woman said, "I came to America for the freedom, where is the freedom when I'm told what I must do?" That's the attitude we received and no amount of being "cultually sensitive" has changed that.
All we know about the propery owners is that they both own multiple properties. This is a business for them. I have been to the Hennepin County property tax website and one lists a flophouse motel that he owns as his home address, the other uses an address in Florida, which is also a business where no one has ever answered the phone - it just rings. HUD says it's a city problem. The Metropolitan Council (whose issues the housig vouchers) says it's a HUD problem. Our city is finally stepping up, because this is not isolated to my neighborhood, it is happening all over the city.
The welfare element does nothing to improve neighborhoods. Do you own a home? If not you have no idea what this kind of activity does to property values and how disheartening it is to see what was a very nice block of well-kept homes turned into a ghetto in just a few years. The junk cars piled up in all three three driveways is the first clue. Sheets used as window covers is another clue. More than a dozen extremely loud Somali kids outside with nothing to do, but climb all over the junk cars (our understand is they don't buy toys for their kids because of the western influence), is another clue. You know the rest of the story.
You want me to respect their culture and help them assimilate? That starts with them respecting our culture - and on this block - we're just not seeing it. Section 8 housing vouchers allow people to live in homes that they couldn't otherwise afford. I'd like to live in a gated community, or on a sprawling estate, but guess what? I can't afford that, so I live where I can afford to live. I don't have 5+ children because I can't afford that many children. Why do people keep making excuses for this? I just don't get it. Why should we pay for them to live in $1800 and $1400 a month homes? Wouldn't you like that deal if you could get it? I sure would! But again, guess what? You and I can't get that deal because we work for a living and had only the children we could afford. Why? Personal responsibility AND accountability.
So I'm curious - why did Somalis come to Minneapolis in the first place? Usually there's a logical reason for certain ethnicities or immigrant groups to settle in certain cities - for example, a lot of Ethopians are in Washington, D.C. because it's the only U.S. city with a direct flight to Ethopia (via Rome on Alitalia Airlines). So is Northwest running flights from Minneapolis to Somalia? Why Minneapolis? Hell, for that matter, why Sweden? As far as I know, Sweden never colonized Somalia or anything like that. Why someplace so cold, someplace where the climate is so different from Somalia?
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They come because Minnesota offers one of the most generous welfare programs in the country. They don't come for the weather, they come for the benefits!
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