Sub-$400,000 houses (real estate, landscaping, neighborhood)

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by ben young

A $ 400,000 house with Oak trim.hire a contractor for $5000 replace the Oak with ...gasp ..Pine and you have your house for $ 405,000 now with your pine trim

Either I am really this poor at expressing myself or you, like OP, really aren't interested in understanding what I'm saying. So I'm going to try to break it down to a simple logical exercise:

I have seen, in some capacity, either in person or online, about 150 different homes in the indicated price range. They fall into two categories, vis-a-vis oak trim: ones that have it and ones that don't. With me so far? Of those:

1. Of the homes that had oak trim, every single one was missing at least some modern-day functional amenities. I have discussed what they are ad nauseam here.
2. Of the homes that did not have oak trim, some were more updated than others. There were still a fair few that weren't. But there were also a fair few that were.

As such, in my sample of homes, oak-trimmed ones with modern amenities amounted to zero results. Non-oak-trimmed ones with the same amenities amounted to greater than zero results. That's literally it. And it makes a TON of sense, considering the time period in which oak trimming was popular. Houses with oak trim tend to be much older, so if the owner just lets them sit as is, they're going to both be and appear in worse state than newer houses that do not have oak trim. That isn't to say that oak-trimmed houses don't have advantages. One is that they tend to be cheaper per square foot, as they typically tend to be larger (and have more bedrooms in the same price range). That can be important to some buyers. They are also often located in attractive historical neighborhoods (e.g., Mac Groveland, Summit Hill), which is how they've fallen into my range of results. I'm not saying one should never buy a house with oak trim, especially since, yes, it's not that difficult to replace - literally all I'm saying is that in such a house odds are higher that you're going to end up replacing a lot more than just the trim.

[paiste13]

My house has half oak and half painted trim that's white.

I guess that means half my house is outdated.

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by paiste13

I guess that means half my house is outdated.

No idea about your house, but if I saw one like it for sale, I would assume that its owner ran out of either money or interest when remodeling.

[paiste13]

Originally Posted by highlanderfil

No idea about your house, but if I saw one like it for sale, I would assume that its owner ran out of either money or interest when remodeling.

One room is one color and the other room is another color, for example. They never cross within the same space.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by highlanderfil

This[/url] good enough? I mean, you're more than welcome to refute my "second-rate bunk science" with your first-rate great awesome fantastic science, but something tells me that I've touched a nerve and because of that you're going to choose to continue to let emotion get in the way of facts.

You were doing so well w/your arguments, and then your hyperlinks just continue to prove my points. Only 1 of the schools you linked to is in this mythical "Jordan/Camden" neighborhood you created, and one of the schools (Longfellow Alternative HS) isn't even anywhere near the Northside.

Henry High (the primary high school serving Camden) has topped the US News' list of best Mpls high schools in years past. Pretty impressive considering that the most one typically learns from these lists (and the test scores they derive from) are what the student body's socioeconomic status is, and Henry's somewhere around ~70% FRPL.

Originally Posted by highlanderfil

And my original point stands - I don't know why you ascribe such a mythical meaning to the $400K amount as though it's a proxy for one's ability to consider a neighborhood "good", but you're infinitely more likely to find affordable housing in "worse" neighborhoods. And the MLS maps bear it out.

Subjective perception and systemic biases impact the MLS just as much as anything. I don't give a s*** about my home's EMV or ascribe any meaning to it, really-- my comment here was just tying back to the title of this thread. If we wanted to buy move-in ready in SW Mpls or Plymouth it wouldn't be a problem for us. But having lived here for 18 years-- after having lived in all types of different neighborhoods/cities/towns, etc-- does give me a little insight into the quality of life of my specific neighborhood. Our block is full of kids that play outside together until dusk. My kids walk to school and back with their friends without issue. Neighbors know eachother and look out for eachother and can be found tending to their yards or enjoying the parks, trails, and sights all year round. We have some of the highest-quality housing stock in the city. This is not an "up and coming" or gentrifying neighborhood as it's always been nice and flown under the radar. I'd challenge anyone to come take a walk around my specific area of tree-lined streets and storybook homes and call it anything other than beautiful. We don't plan to move anytime soon so I'm generally not too worried about other people's opinions or what the MLS is doing.

But you're right-- I do get irked by folks that attempt to authoritatively speak on the people and places around here when it's clear they're out of their depth...

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by paiste13

One room is one color and the other room is another color, for example. They never cross within the same space.

Sure. But you've got to admit, there aren't many like this. And I'm not sure I could personally live in a space like this (again, a "me" issue) - the incongruence would get too weird after a while.

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

You were doing so well w/your arguments, and then your hyperlinks just continue to prove my points. Only 1 of the schools you linked to is in this mythical "Jordan/Camden" neighborhood you created

I believe that I've already conceded that I got my nomenclature wrong. You may continue to beat a dead horse, but to what end?

and one of the schools (Longfellow Alternative HS) isn't even anywhere near the Northside.

Indeed it isn't. But it's a school an arbitrary address in Jordan was assigned to, so I went with it. Thank you for correcting me. Are the other two appropriate?

Henry High (the primary high school serving Camden) has topped the US News' list of best Mpls high schools in years past. Pretty impressive considering that the most one typically learns from these lists (and the test scores they derive from) are what the student body's socioeconomic status is, and Henry's somewhere around ~70% FRPL.

This Henry High? (I'm genuinely not being snarky and the proficiency rankings don't really matter here as they're from a tiny sample size - I just want to make sure I'm looking at the right school as MRC brings up two of them.)

Subjective perception and systemic biases impact the MLS just as much as anything.

Sure. But they don't exactly rise up randomly out of thin air. That "shots fired" map is a little hard to ignore...

If we wanted to buy move-in ready in SW Mpls or Plymouth it wouldn't be a problem for us. But having lived here for 18 years-- after having lived in all types of different neighborhoods/cities/towns, etc-- does give me a little insight into the quality of life of my specific neighborhood. Our block is full of kids that play outside together until dusk. My kids walk to school and back with their friends without issue. Neighbors know eachother and look out for eachother and can be found tending to their yards or enjoying the parks, trails, and sights all year round. We have some of the highest-quality housing stock in the city. This is not an "up and coming" or gentrifying neighborhood as it's always been nice and flown under the radar. I'd challenge anyone to come take a walk around my specific area of tree-lined streets and storybook homes and call it anything other than beautiful. We don't plan to move anytime soon so I'm generally not too worried about other people's opinions or what the MLS is doing.

I'd be more than happy to check it out, but I believe the bolded text is where the issue lies. Your particular stretch of street might be beautiful and peaceful (indeed, if you live in one of N'hood Scout's "lighter" areas of Near North, that would be proof positive of the stats' being accurate), but can you run a 5K in a random direction at 10 pm and feel just as comfortable? Can a slightly-built dude? Can a 21-year-old female?

But you're right-- I do get irked by folks that attempt to authoritatively speak on the people and places around here when it's clear they're out of their depth...

I'm not sure where you got "authoritative". I can't boast the same experience in MSP that you have, so I have to rely on data. It's not authoritative, it just...is. If the data is wrong (I went with your assertion of GS.com being junk without even so much as trying to argue it's not), then I'm wrong and so be it - I generally don't have a problem admitting it like I have done with my mistake re Jordan/Camden.

[paiste13]

You seem to nitpick and try to cut things down instead of just realizing the market is what it is. If your "chi" or "vibe' or overall feeling is such a house with an update lol vng room trim but not the basement guest bedroom trim is simply too unbearable to live in, I think you'll be looking for a house for a long time.

We can choose to be happy. Or choose not to be.

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by paiste13

You seem to nitpick and try to cut things down instead of just realizing the market is what it is.

You have literally zero evidence of my doing any of that. "The market is what it is" is a non-statement. Of course, it is. That's not to say that in the market, being what it is, I cannot look for things that matter to me.

If your "chi" or "vibe' or overall feeling is such a house with an update lol vng room trim but not the basement guest bedroom trim is simply too unbearable to live in, I think you'll be looking for a house for a long time.

You are, once again, hyperfocusing on the aesthetical aspect itself rather than what it represents (to me) and continuing to choose to take what I'm saying literally. I don't know what value you feel like that adds to the conversation, but I'm going to choose to remove myself from this particular aspect of it. I'm not going to beat the same dead horse for the tenth time.

[pannierpacker]

Originally Posted by paiste13

I don't disagree the housing market sucks. It does suck. But you marry the neighborhood and the actual house is less important as you have years to improve it. A family doesn't need HGTV quality aesthetics in their house. I certainly don't have that. I wish I did but I don't.

I did a sub-$400k search in south mpls and the first-ring western suburbs south of 394 and got 153 hits. 171 hits under $500k. That will go up once spring arrives.

The problem though is that sometimes you can't fix ugly without a bulldozer. Ugly doesn't resell. Maybe the neighborhood you picked was safe but if 1 entire wall of that home is covered with garage doors, you can't fix that with paint.