Sub-$400,000 houses (Plymouth, Jordan: for sale, neighborhoods, buyers)

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by paiste13

If you're discounting houses based on the trim color it might be a "you" problem over a market problem. Paint the trim white at a bare minimum if it offends you.

Not on trim color, but on their general state. Trim color is usually indicative of how up-to-date it is. I've not seen many houses with dark trim that weren't in their "original" condition.

Painting oak trim is not nearly as simple as you're making it out to be, either.

[paiste13]

Originally Posted by highlanderfil

Not on trim color, but on their general state. Trim color is usually indicative of how up-to-date it is. I've not seen many houses with dark trim that weren't in their "original" condition.

Painting oak trim is not nearly as simple as you're making it out to be, either.

My family needed a house and it wasn't HGTC ready. But the bones were fine. My happiness and quality of life is not predicated on the color of trim. I know we've put in new insulation, new slaiding doors, new garade door, etc... things that add functionality before aesthetics. Trim color does not equate to maintenance.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by highlanderfil

That said, I'm not sure how keen I would be to live in an oasis surrounded by a war zone

Again, this might be a "you" problem. I mean, here in this area you seem so deathly afraid of, my home's EMV is actually north of $400K-- so clearly there's a market of folks that know the area and find it desirable.

There are lots of people, in fact, who don't need to live in a little suburban bubble surrounded by people just like themselves. People who actually appreciate urban life, being surrounded by a diverse group of neighbors, and the sense of community to be found here.

Originally Posted by highlanderfil

(with crappy schools to boot).

Oh, I didn't know you were also an educational expert. Please do tell me about these 'crappy schools', and what I am sure is highly rigorous evaluative data scoured from the farthest reaches of second-rate bunk science sites (starts with a great, ends with a schools) to be able to bestow us with such informed opinions.

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by paiste13

My family needed a house and it wasn't HGTC ready. But the bones were fine. My happiness and quality of life is not predicated on the color of trim. I know we've put in new insulation, new slaiding doors, new garade door, etc... things that add functionality before aesthetics. Trim color does not equate to maintenance.

In your experience - sure. In my experience - I've not seen house one with dark trim that had more than the bare basics updated. I don't know how many you've seen in the last month - I've seen about three dozen and photos of countless others on Zillow that go immediately into the "ignore" pile because all they have are "bones".

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

Again, this might be a "you" problem.

Sure. As I am but one man, I am, once again, only responsible for my own perceptions.

I mean, here in this area you seem so deathly afraid of, my home's EMV is actually north of $400K-- so clearly there's a market of folks that know the area and find it desirable.

Risk tolerances run the gamut. I see rentals in places I mentioned that crest well north of $3K. Some people like "up and coming" neighborhoods. I don't. The "up and coming" process tends to take years and I have but one life.

There are lots of people, in fact, who don't need to live in a little suburban bubble surrounded by people just like themselves.

Who's doing the redlining now?

People who actually appreciate urban life, being surrounded by a diverse group of neighbors, and the sense of community to be found here.

I can appreciate urban life, seeing as how I am typing this from an apartment in St. Paul. One does not need to live in a place he is more likely than not to hear gunshots (hm, I wonder where the reports are clustered on this page - oh wait, I know, the boring suburban folks in Linden Hills must all be deaf and can't hear them, that's it!) on a nightly basis to appreciate urban life.

Oh, I didn't know you were also an educational expert.

You didn't (and don't) know anything about me, so that's a pretty accurate statement, well done. Whether I am or not, though, is irrelevant, but, once again, I can read stats.

Please do tell me about these 'crappy schools', and what I am sure is highly rigorous evaluative data scoured from the farthest reaches of second-rate bunk science sites (starts with a great, ends with a schools) to be able to bestow us with such informed opinions.

This good enough? I mean, you're more than welcome to refute my "second-rate bunk science" with your first-rate great awesome fantastic science, but something tells me that I've touched a nerve and because of that you're going to choose to continue to let emotion get in the way of facts.

Look... All the snark aside, I get it. You like the neighborhood you live in enough to overlook the obvious (and they can't be anything BUT obvious unless you're delusional) drawbacks, so you will defend your turf to the bitter end. More power to you. However, the stats I'm citing (and more of the ones I haven't even started to bring up) are pretty damned hard to make up. Your opinion, much like mine, is a sample size of one. And my original point stands - I don't know why you ascribe such a mythical meaning to the $400K amount as though it's a proxy for one's ability to consider a neighborhood "good", but you're infinitely more likely to find affordable housing in "worse" neighborhoods. And the MLS maps bear it out.

[Somnifor]

Ten to twelve years ago you could still buy houses in NE Minneapolis for less than $100k so I would challenge the idea that $400k is affordable. If that is the new standard for affordability then home ownership is destined to become a luxury for the rich and the professional classes only.

In the long run the housing market is destined to crash. If first time home buyers are priced out of the market then eventually there won't be enough people on the ladder of the housing market. Who will buy the houses of the boomers and gen x when they die off if millenials and gen z are disproportionately life long renters? A more likely scenario is that we start to see significant growth in the construction of less expensive houses. Current prices are partially driven by a shortage of new construction since the financial crisis. A lot of home builders went under back then. New construction in large enough numbers would bring prices out of the stratosphere.

[paiste13]

Originally Posted by highlanderfil

In your experience - sure. In my experience - I've not seen house one with dark trim that had more than the bare basics updated. I don't know how many you've seen in the last month - I've seen about three dozen and photos of countless others on Zillow that go immediately into the "ignore" pile because all they have are "bones".

In my experience, sure?

You're literally discounting houses right off the bat based on - wait for it - trim color. If you want a fully updated 3+ bedroom house you won't get one in the metro area for under 400k. But most people don't need that in a starter home. Likewise, there's a reason smaller houses in southwest MPLS can be more expensive than a more updated house in Rogers or Cottage Grove; you're buying the neighborhood.

I don't know you, and you don't know me, but it seems like you're fishing reasons or excuses to be angry. Maybe it's time to reset your expectations. I know people who bought under $400k and don't live "in a warzone". Will the house have quartz countertops and subway tile in the bathroom? Maybe not, but you can update those things later.

[ben young]

A $ 400,000 house with Oak trim.hire a contractor for $5000 replace the Oak with ...gasp ..Pine and you have your house for $ 405,000 now with your pine trim

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by Somnifor

Ten to twelve years ago you could still buy houses in NE Minneapolis for less than $100k so I would challenge the idea that $400k is affordable. If that is the new standard for affordability then home ownership is destined to become a luxury for the rich and the professional classes only.

Yup. Especially with today's rates. My wife and I put together make comfortable low six figures, but our price range tops out at $350K. We might consider stretching to $400K for an absolute turnkey dream house, but even then that's a monthly payment of about three grand (not to mention a close to six figure initial outlay) I am just not keen on having, especially in a high market destined for a correction.

[highlanderfil]

Originally Posted by paiste13

In my experience, sure?

Yes, I am sure that in your experience, trim color does not equal to maintenance. I'm recognizing the validity of your experience. However, my experience has been different.

You're literally discounting houses right off the bat based on - wait for it - trim color.

No. I am discounting houses right off the bat based on what the trim color usually seems to indicate about their overall state. A fine point you seem either unable or unwilling to grasp.

If you want a fully updated 3+ bedroom house you won't get one in the metro area for under 400k.

That's correct (although, it depends on what you define as "metro area").

But most people don't need that in a starter home.

I don't recall "starter home" as part of the original inquiry. You merely talked about the misperception of there not being cheap housing in MSP. And if $400K is the price for a "starter" home, I'm sorry, with all due respect to a state I hope to call home for the observable future, Minnesota isn't a place I want to buy it.

Likewise, there's a reason smaller houses in southwest MPLS can be more expensive than a more updated house in Rogers or Cottage Grove; you're buying the neighborhood.

Correct.

I don't know you, and you don't know me, but it seems like you're fishing reasons or excuses to be angry.

Funny, I could say exactly the same about you (although to a lesser extent than Camden Northsider). I can assure you that I have precisely zero reasons to be angry about any of this (except maybe the fact that you keep focusing on the specifics of what I said about oak trim rather than recognizing what I actually said about it representing).

Maybe it's time to reset your expectations.

I don't really have any, to tell you the truth. I've only just started to dip my toe into the housing market here, so my expectations are being formed on the fly.

I know people who bought under $400k and don't live "in a warzone".

I believe you. There are plenty of places available for $300-350K in, say, Mac Groveland. I just don't want to buy any of them, because I'd need to drop another $50K (at least) on bringing them into the 21st century.

Will the house have quartz countertops and subway tile in the bathroom? Maybe not, but you can update those things later.

I'm not talking about those. I really don't care as much about aesthetics as you seem to think I do. I care much more about drafty windows, ancient or nonexistent air conditioning, floors that tilt every which way (I kid you not, I've been to plenty of century-old houses whose floors are crooked enough from one room to the next to give you vertigo), etc. The fact that they all have dark trim is just the icing on the rather unfortunate-looking cake.