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This is basically why we are moving to Minneapolis. We are Texans living in Arizona. It is absolutely horrid here! I avoided looking at Minnesota for a long long time because of the winters, but when it kept popping up because it meets the majority of our requirements, I finally gave in and researched it. Now we will be moving there in about a year. I did a salary comparison for my husband's job and the mediun is over $20k higher there, but housing costs are pretty much the same. The idea of having money leftover after paying bills and buying groceries is so surreal to me! And the schools of course. Arizona is always in the bottom 10, while Minnesota is always in the top 10. I am dreading the winters, but everything else will make up for it .
Where we live in the Waco area is pretty typical of Texas and the tradeoffs involved. We are in a reasonably upscale subdivision of $350-450K houses that (unusual for Texas) actually has sidewalks. But it is a 4 block subdivision with a single entrance onto a busy narrow 2-lane road with zero shoulders or sidewalks. If you turn right and walk down the ditch to avoid getting hit by cars you get to a traffic light crossing an extremely busy 5-lane arterial and there is no crosswalk or pedestrian walk signals and the cars going by at 50 mph are not looking for bikes or pedestrians. There is a Starbucks and other stuff across the highway but it is nerve wracking to get across on a bike much less on foot and I am a hard core commuter cyclist with 30 years of experience with urban bike commuting. If one turns the other direction out of our neighborhood there is 6 lane freeway with on and off ramps that you must cross using a bridge that has no sidewalks or pedestrian signals. If on foot you must scuttle across the on ramps and then walk down the 1' wide curb on the side of the bridge that is too narrow to be considered a sidewalk. If you are on a bike you just have to claim the lane in 40 mph traffic and go for it surrounded by cars that aren't particularly used to seeing bikes. My daughter's school is on the other side and so while it would be a 10 minute walk to school we have no choice but to drive her. It would be insane to send one's child out alone and the cops would probably pick her up for being on the street. So my kids who want to ride their bikes to school or to visit friends are basically trapped within our little 4-street subdivision with no way out but car. If I just want to take my kids on a bike ride I have to load all the bikes onto the car and drive to one of our very few and very short bike paths that tend to be packed with pedestrians and dog walkers, or way out to some country road. It is impossible to just go biking from our house or even walk the dog more than about 4 blocks.
We could live in the older part of the city where there is a more traditional street grid but then there are crime issues and the schools are a total mess. This is basically the story of Texas. You are forced into your car despite your best efforts. Nothing is planned for anything but maximum speed commuting by car. And it is a major reason why I'm so interested in MN. It seems that one can claim a fairly normal urban/suburban life and still have actual decently planned parks, greenway, bike path and trail systems available. I look at the MSP bike path maps and my jaw just drops. And when I read about people commuting dozens of miles around the MSP area entirely on bike paths I get jealous. Not even possible to do on surface streets where I live due to all the freeways and lack of any reasonable bike lanes on busy arterial streets. Seattle and Portland do a good job of accommodating bikes and pedestrians in the central core areas but not so much in the suburbs. The MSP area is the only place I have seen that really gets it right.
I moved west, seeking more sun, warmer temperatures, fewer clouds, fewer bugs and lower taxes/costs of living. I didn't read that other current thread titled "What do you hate most about Minneapolis" but am guessing that it thoroughly covers most of the reasons people have for moving.
Your comments pretty much sum up my feelings.
Each person has to evaluate how much ever aspect of their life is important to them and how much each aspect affects them.
Family/Relatives are certainly important. If you extended family lives in the same city or area as you do....how often do you really socialize with them ? Do you see them daily, weekly, monthly just on the 4th of July, Thanksgiving and Christmas ?
Job(s) are important. Are you just scraping by paying your bills or are you making stacks of cash at your present job ? Could you make a lot more money by moving away ? Money doesn't solve all your problems, but it sure makes them more manageable generally. Perhaps you have relatives/family/friends that will pay some of your bills....I guess that would make a difference too !
Culture/lifestyle is also important. To each their own. My brother blew out of the Midwest in his mid twenties saying he felt like he was culturally in a "straight jacket". He's been in California for 44 years now and says he's never regretted the move and absolutely loves the Southern California lifestyle.
Weather is also important. Do you like more outdoor activities, or do you have more inside hobbies that keep you busy ? Do you get restless when cooped up inside to long ? How does heat/cold affect you ? Do you get hot easily, do you get cold easily ? Do you absolutely love skiing, ice fishing and snowmobiling more than gardening, sitting on the back deck relaxing with coffee or ice tea or perhaps washing and waxing your car weekly in the driveway ? Only you can decide how important and/or enjoyable each of these is to you....or how possibly one particularly favorite activity may trump all the others combined.
I'd never move from or to Minnesota until I'd answered all these questions and probably a few more to my own satisfaction.
Where we live in the Waco area is pretty typical of Texas and the tradeoffs involved. We are in a reasonably upscale subdivision of $350-450K houses that (unusual for Texas) actually has sidewalks. But it is a 4 block subdivision with a single entrance onto a busy narrow 2-lane road with zero shoulders or sidewalks. If you turn right and walk down the ditch to avoid getting hit by cars you get to a traffic light crossing an extremely busy 5-lane arterial and there is no crosswalk or pedestrian walk signals and the cars going by at 50 mph are not looking for bikes or pedestrians. There is a Starbucks and other stuff across the highway but it is nerve wracking to get across on a bike much less on foot and I am a hard core commuter cyclist with 30 years of experience with urban bike commuting. If one turns the other direction out of our neighborhood there is 6 lane freeway with on and off ramps that you must cross using a bridge that has no sidewalks or pedestrian signals. If on foot you must scuttle across the on ramps and then walk down the 1' wide curb on the side of the bridge that is too narrow to be considered a sidewalk. If you are on a bike you just have to claim the lane in 40 mph traffic and go for it surrounded by cars that aren't particularly used to seeing bikes. My daughter's school is on the other side and so while it would be a 10 minute walk to school we have no choice but to drive her. It would be insane to send one's child out alone and the cops would probably pick her up for being on the street. So my kids who want to ride their bikes to school or to visit friends are basically trapped within our little 4-street subdivision with no way out but car. If I just want to take my kids on a bike ride I have to load all the bikes onto the car and drive to one of our very few and very short bike paths that tend to be packed with pedestrians and dog walkers, or way out to some country road. It is impossible to just go biking from our house or even walk the dog more than about 4 blocks.
We could live in the older part of the city where there is a more traditional street grid but then there are crime issues and the schools are a total mess. This is basically the story of Texas. You are forced into your car despite your best efforts. Nothing is planned for anything but maximum speed commuting by car. And it is a major reason why I'm so interested in MN. It seems that one can claim a fairly normal urban/suburban life and still have actual decently planned parks, greenway, bike path and trail systems available. I look at the MSP bike path maps and my jaw just drops. And when I read about people commuting dozens of miles around the MSP area entirely on bike paths I get jealous. Not even possible to do on surface streets where I live due to all the freeways and lack of any reasonable bike lanes on busy arterial streets. Seattle and Portland do a good job of accommodating bikes and pedestrians in the central core areas but not so much in the suburbs. The MSP area is the only place I have seen that really gets it right.
Hahaha. I grew up in rural Texas, north of DFW and I have very vivid memories of trying to drive down the country highway so I could get to town and being forced to drive 20 mph for sometimes several miles (very few places to pass on curving, hilly roads) because of cyclists riding on the 6 inch shoulder.
And I'm sorry you live in Waco . There are definitely much better Texas cities/metro areas.
we also unfortunately lost a father and my sister to early deaths in the last few years and I'm sure that plays a part in my thoughts about being back by family. Yet I see so many of my friends move away from mn and leave family and make new homes and be happy. So I assume a family can make it work wherever. My worries are similar to a few comments above. How long after we move back do friends and family start leaving MN? Every time I talk to people in MN I get the same response, "I CAN WAIT TO GET OUT OF HERE!"
Everyone has the urge to move out at some point. I remember being in college and walking around downtown and thinking to myself, is this all there is? I was so ready to get out. And so I did. But now I'm getting ready to move back (from DC too coincidentally). It's not an easy choice because I love a lot of things about this area, but I know it's the right one.
Remember that most of those you see leave MN are going to return too. They may seem happy and permanent in their new location, but everyone knows, so many people end up moving back after their itch has been satisfied. I cannot tell you how many articles I have read about MN musicians or actors who leave for NYC or CA and are back in MN within a year or two. I encourage everyone to leave for a while. I think those that don't will always have regrets and have a negative attitude towards MN.
And you've been away for a decade. You should not feel like you are wimping out and coming back with your tail between your legs. That's a big block of time. It's not like you left for 6 months and came back after feeling homesick.
Remember that most of those you see leave MN are going to return too.
It's not actually true that "most" who leave MN, return. There were actually stats about it in a report I posted to another thread. It's around 25%, and of that 25%, most of them were in their early 20s. I.e. they went out of state to go to college and then came back.
After age 30, there are actually not that many people moving into Minnesota, returning or other wise. Of that group, the percentage of people who lived here before was very small, like 2%.
It's not actually true that "most" who leave MN, return. There were actually stats about it in a report I posted to another thread. It's around 25%, and of that 25%, most of them were in their early 20s. I.e. they went out of state to go to college and then came back.
After age 30, there are actually not that many people moving into Minnesota, returning or other wise. Of that group, the percentage of people who lived here before was very small, like 2%.
FWIW, I suspect that since MN has a relatively low rate of unemployment compared to neighboring states, there is a fair influx of people seeking jobs that don't have family in MN or were raised in MN. Without a family connection, those folks would have even less reason to return to MN after leaving to seek another job or after retirement.
The Culture is phony and fake. It's the land of 10,000 taxes. Idiotic governor and state politicians. Every time I turn on the local TV it's like watching a bunch of retards hump a door knob. It's a town of small potatoes. I don't feel there is enough opportunity there for my family either. Hockey is awesome, but everything else sucks. There is no culture. The people are extremely xenophobic. A tremendous amount of refugees live there. The hipster culture is 5 years out of date. The beer is good. The corporate culture is awful at most companies due to Minnesota Nice.
It's not actually true that "most" who leave MN, return. There were actually stats about it in a report I posted to another thread. It's around 25%, and of that 25%, most of them were in their early 20s. I.e. they went out of state to go to college and then came back.
After age 30, there are actually not that many people moving into Minnesota, returning or other wise. Of that group, the percentage of people who lived here before was very small, like 2%.
I expect these statistics are pretty similar in most states with comparable stable economies. Young people are the most mobile, leaving home for college, the military, or just to leave home. By the time people reach their mid-30s or so they are much more likely to be settled in career-track jobs and have families which makes any kind of relocation so much more complicated. It's one thing to pack up the the truck of your car when you are 22, another thing entirely when you are 35, married to a working spouse, have a house and 2 kids in school. People just get settled and stuck in their live and learn to make the best of whatever their local situations are. I don't think Minnesotans are anything unique.
Those who do relocate from state to state in mid-career tend to be higher-level executive types who get transferred from one office to another for whatever corporate reason. These types are actually a very tiny fraction of the overall population. Companies don't bother doing that with lower level employees who are more replaceable and disposable.
The exceptions would be those states that are bleeding population because their economies are in shambles, like for example West Virginia, or those that are the middle of booms like Wyoming and North Dakota.
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. There are definitely much better Texas cities/metro areas.
