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Though we're not actively looking to leave at the moment, I have been doing some semi-serious research of possible relocation destinations. In our case, it has nothing to do with the winters; we generally handle them fine, though it would be nice to live somewhere where they are a bit milder and/or shorter (we enjoy seasons and winter sports). The main driver for us has been the large number of friends and family that have left or are planning to leave. And, as many know, most people here already have well established relationships with existing friends and family, so it's hard to make new, close friendships here at this stage in life (we're in our early 30's). My husband is on the verge of having no close family in state for half the year, and we don't have any local family in our generation/life stage. The reason why we may consider leaving someday is the flip side of why OP is thinking of returning - so I understand that train of thought.
The more I research, however, the more I seem to think that staying put makes the most sense for us. Many of my findings are similar to that of Ghengis: long-term water concerns in the mountain west, COL/water/etc concerns about California, lack of sunlight in the Pacific NW (which is also more important to me than mild temps), and the destination my husband's family has chosen does not appeal to us for a number of reasons. Add to that the fact that public schools are worse and/or housing prices are much higher in the other cities that appeal to us. Job opportunities for both of us would likely be at least somewhat better, and maybe with higher pay, though likely not enough to offset increased COL and/or private school for two children. If we stay here, we can have our house fully paid off within the next decade, send our children to decent public schools, and have more ability to travel to other places that sound interesting to us vs. have to spend much of our vacation time and money taking trips back to MN to visit the family and friends that are still here. On top of that, I've found that I really enjoy the outdoor recreation culture here (which can be found in the winter too, if you are interested in those activities) and have been recently making more of an effort to get out and enjoy those kinds of things. There have also been signs of positive changes for us socially, which has been mitigating the desire to leave.
I would ask the OP: how well have you tried to build up a support network in your new locale? The people I know who have moved and really enjoy their new locales have done this, and basically made "friends as family" relationships in their new destinations (which, from what I understand, is easier to in many places outside of MN). If you have that, I don't think being close to your actual family becomes as important. I understand the dilemma, and good luck in your decision.
Think about where you were 10 years ago, though. When you left, you had lived in MN your entire life and so were tired of it and hungry to go explore the world. You had angst and it was good riddance. It's not clear if you were married or had kids before you left, but I'm assuming not. So you were a young, single adult fed up with MN.
Contrast that to now when your life is completely different. Your life is your family now. And MN is a GREAT place to raise a family. And your kids will be back amongst family, which is huge. Everyone has fond memories of playing with their cousins and staying over at their grandparents'. You will find immense joy in watching your kids thrive amongst extended family. Never being bored or lonely again about spending a holiday weekend with just your kids and wife and not the larger family like you would back home. There is no chance to be lonely when you have that built-in family all around you.
Are you currently in a place you like? I think the decision is a lot easier when you are in a city you hate. But if you like your current city and have a good job, etc, I get that it's a harder choice.
I think you need to close your eyes and think about what you will regret should a family member pass or what you will regret at the end of your own life. How much more of what really matters do you want to give up or force your children to give up? Is whatever you have going on in the east coast more important than that?
We moved back after 10+ years away. It's a great place to live and raise a family, and being near extended relatives is great for the kids. MUCH cheaper than most other cities we've lived in. I still have wanderlust, but that's because I like to keep moving, not because I have a problem with Minneapolis. And it's an exciting time to be in MN; things are changing (in a mostl positive way) and it's feeling more and more like a big city, but still minus the big city price tag. If we leave, it will be down the road and it will be because I want a new experience and a new adventure.
Think about where you were 10 years ago, though. When you left, you had lived in MN your entire life and so were tired of it and hungry to go explore the world. You had angst and it was good riddance. It's not clear if you were married or had kids before you left, but I'm assuming not. So you were a young, single adult fed up with MN.
Contrast that to now when your life is completely different. Your life is your family now. And MN is a GREAT place to raise a family. And your kids will be back amongst family, which is huge. Everyone has fond memories of playing with their cousins and staying over at their grandparents'. You will find immense joy in watching your kids thrive amongst extended family. Never being bored or lonely again about spending a holiday weekend with just your kids and wife and not the larger family like you would back home. There is no chance to be lonely when you have that built-in family all around you.
Are you currently in a place you like? I think the decision is a lot easier when you are in a city you hate. But if you like your current city and have a good job, etc, I get that it's a harder choice.
I think you need to close your eyes and think about what you will regret should a family member pass or what you will regret at the end of your own life. How much more of what really matters do you want to give up or force your children to give up? Is whatever you have going on in the east coast more important than that?
Fair points, I wasn't really trying to make this about me. More about generalized theories but I'll share a little more about me.
When we left almost 10 years ago, we were in our mid 20s, married with two boys 7 and 2 at the time. We weren't fed up per say, just eager to see what else is out there. We moved to Washongton DC where we knew exactly NO ONE! Lol
Anyway, we moved around a bit since. Charlotte, Dallas, even moved back to mn for work for 6 months and could wait to leave again, we moved back to Charlotte then Dallas again then DC again then Charlotte and now back to DC.... Yeah I know, luckily our boys have handled it all really well. They have made such good friends quickly in each location. Lucky them.
we also unfortunately lost a father and my sister to early deaths in the last few years and I'm sure that plays a part in my thoughts about being back by family. Yet I see so many of my friends move away from mn and leave family and make new homes and be happy. So I assume a family can make it work wherever. My worries are similar to a few comments above. How long after we move back do friends and family start leaving MN? Every time I talk to people in MN I get the same response, "I CAN WAIT TO GET OUT OF HERE!"
People may say they can't wait to leave, but for most people, that's often just the winter talking. In Minneapolis, anyway, people are moving IN, not out
I've found it far less transitional here than the other bigger cities we've lived in, in part because it's actually affordable here -- much less incentive to pack up and go elsewhere, at least if you're older with school-age kids.
have been actively searching and visiting potential retirement locations and the more we look, the better it looks to stay put right where we are in east-central MN.
as much as I like the mountain west, the long-term water shortage problems are going to negatively impact life in a big way. also, with the goal of living outside city limits, the loss of trees and the alarming increase of wild fires seems to be a hassle we're not willing to put up with.
the desert SW has appealed to me, but not so much to Mrs G...she needs green vistas to be happy
California is the tops, but cost-of-living and over-population makes it undesireable to live in, thought about the Sacramento area but have the same concerns there as the mountain west
need my sun shine more than mild temps so the Pacific NW is right out
have lived in Florida and while the COL isn't bad, I found it an opressingly boring place to live
population centers that define the NorthEast have no appeal to us
would maybe consider the swath between Missouri/Arkansas thru the Carolinas and will check that area out more in the coming years
too many rednecks in the deep south for my liking
could see a move to Nebraska or South Dakota...maybe
What about Deadwood/Black Hills area of South Dakota? Seems like a mix of forests, mountains, and maybe more water? Montana? A friend of mine retired last summer at around 32, moved to and bought a nice house in Steamboat on a river with a creek also flowing into it. He didn't have water rights when he bought and was planning to put in for them just to get process started for future problems. Imagine living on a decent size river, and creek and not being able to use them! I've lived in CO and Alaska and to have the sunshine want and water, they don't seem to mix a ton. It's either one or the other. Hawaii?
What scenery do you dislike? What part of Minnesota are you referring to? If it is western MN I understand, but the eastern part I find very appealing. Good luck!
It's flat, flat, flat, flat, flat. Yeah there's some okay greenery but it's no Pacific Northwest. Lakes are pretty much what makes the scenery, that and the emphasis on easily accessible parks, etc.
That said the quality of life and cost of living is such one could more easily save money and simply fly to those parts of the country that are more interesting topographically.
I like to think of MSP as 'home base' from which I can more affordably explore the rest of the world. Having lived in some cities that have amazing views and social scene I can tell you, between the daily grind of life and having easier access 24/7, you start to take it all for granted and the magic diminishes.
Driving through Seattle every day it's amazing how quickly you're like oh look there's a giant f'ing MOUNTAIN
out my window that is the biggest thing I've ever seen...whatever.
Besides the winters, the only thing pushing me away is something not inherent to the area itself, only my relation to it. I've spent most of my life here and feel that living elsewhere would provide greater opportunity for personal development. Major cities in FL or TX top my list. I know I would enjoy NYC or SF if money were not a factor.
Minneapolis has everything I need to be comfortable though. If not offered a compelling opportunity elsewhere, I'll stay (quite happily, at that, as now more than ever I'm quite aware of the great mix of amenities/affordability that M/SP offer).
Very interesting thread for someone who is thinking of moving my family from Texas to the MSP area in the next year or so. My wife and I are not Texans and we are growing weary of the culture and cities down here which have very little amenities to offer except sprawling car-centric suburban subdivisions and retail sprawl.
I am from Oregon, grew up in Eugene and have lived and worked in both Portland and Seattle as well as Juneau Alaska. So I have lived with scenery at my doorstep. So why are we looking at MSP? Seattle has grown unmanageable for families, the cost of living, traffic, and quality of schools outside the exclusive suburban towns is all much worse than MSP. My old co-workers who live there with families talk of the endless battles with crosstown traffic just to get to and from school events, soccer practices, and all that sort of thing. Portland is a little more manageable but not terribly vibrant economically and is just full of underemployed millenials doing whatever they can to get by. And again, the schools are problematic due to longstanding budget crises if you aren't in one of the most upscale suburbs. MSP just seems to have hit the sweet spot for those of us looking to raise families and provide future opportunities for our children.
What I have found is that when one is young and single then the city and surrounding area is literally your back yard. When I lived in Seattle I used to keep my skis in my car and every Weds evening would drive up to do night telemark skiing at the Snoqualmie Pass ski area and then weekends I'd always be off doing something on the snow or water. I did a lot of scuba diving. But with a family and a house it is just really hard to get away like that or even spend the money. Mostly now I'm coaching soccer spring and fall, running around to soccer and swim practices, going to soccer games, swim meets or just working around the house on the weekend and the amenities that I use are those at my immediate doorstep not those two hours away. Getting out on my bike when I can for rides in the local area, walking the dog and running every day. That sort of thing. And it is my impression that MSP is probably the best urban area in the country for having outdoor fitness and recreational opportunities at one's doorstep such as biking trails, walking trails, lakes, parks, and so forth. Seattle and Portland have good biking infrastructures in the urban core but their suburban trail and parks networks are a pale shadow to what the MSP area has to offer. Denver seems more similar to Seattle in that respect. Many of the Denver suburbs look like they were borrowed from Texas. Because the Rockies are so close it just seems that there has been a lot less effort put into developing urban and suburban area green spaces and trails compared to MSP.
Perhaps the grass is always greener....but MSP really seems to have its act together as a city. And I think the lack of overwhelming scenic and wilderness areas nearby compared to Denver, Seattle, and Portland has actually meant that MSP has put a lot more effort into developing those resources it has right at home. Why put so much time and effort into developing local parks and trails when there are national parks and wilderness areas an easy drive away?
Very interesting thread for someone who is thinking of moving my family from Texas to the MSP area in the next year or so. My wife and I are not Texans and we are growing weary of the culture and cities down here which have very little amenities to offer except sprawling car-centric suburban subdivisions and retail sprawl.
I am from Oregon, grew up in Eugene and have lived and worked in both Portland and Seattle as well as Juneau Alaska. So I have lived with scenery at my doorstep. So why are we looking at MSP? Seattle has grown unmanageable for families, the cost of living, traffic, and quality of schools outside the exclusive suburban towns is all much worse than MSP. My old co-workers who live there with families talk of the endless battles with crosstown traffic just to get to and from school events, soccer practices, and all that sort of thing. Portland is a little more manageable but not terribly vibrant economically and is just full of underemployed millenials doing whatever they can to get by. And again, the schools are problematic due to longstanding budget crises if you aren't in one of the most upscale suburbs. MSP just seems to have hit the sweet spot for those of us looking to raise families and provide future opportunities for our children.
What I have found is that when one is young and single then the city and surrounding area is literally your back yard. When I lived in Seattle I used to keep my skis in my car and every Weds evening would drive up to do night telemark skiing at the Snoqualmie Pass ski area and then weekends I'd always be off doing something on the snow or water. I did a lot of scuba diving. But with a family and a house it is just really hard to get away like that or even spend the money. Mostly now I'm coaching soccer spring and fall, running around to soccer and swim practices, going to soccer games, swim meets or just working around the house on the weekend and the amenities that I use are those at my immediate doorstep not those two hours away. Getting out on my bike when I can for rides in the local area, walking the dog and running every day. That sort of thing. And it is my impression that MSP is probably the best urban area in the country for having outdoor fitness and recreational opportunities at one's doorstep such as biking trails, walking trails, lakes, parks, and so forth. Seattle and Portland have good biking infrastructures in the urban core but their suburban trail and parks networks are a pale shadow to what the MSP area has to offer. Denver seems more similar to Seattle in that respect. Many of the Denver suburbs look like they were borrowed from Texas. Because the Rockies are so close it just seems that there has been a lot less effort put into developing urban and suburban area green spaces and trails compared to MSP.
Perhaps the grass is always greener....but MSP really seems to have its act together as a city. And I think the lack of overwhelming scenic and wilderness areas nearby compared to Denver, Seattle, and Portland has actually meant that MSP has put a lot more effort into developing those resources it has right at home. Why put so much time and effort into developing local parks and trails when there are national parks and wilderness areas an easy drive away?
This is basically why we are moving to Minneapolis. We are Texans living in Arizona. It is absolutely horrid here! I avoided looking at Minnesota for a long long time because of the winters, but when it kept popping up because it meets the majority of our requirements, I finally gave in and researched it. Now we will be moving there in about a year. I did a salary comparison for my husband's job and the mediun is over $20k higher there, but housing costs are pretty much the same. The idea of having money leftover after paying bills and buying groceries is so surreal to me! And the schools of course. Arizona is always in the bottom 10, while Minnesota is always in the top 10. I am dreading the winters, but everything else will make up for it .
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